The Relational Parenting Podcast

Jennie (00:00.098)
So you always, by the way, your sound and your video and everything, all your setup looks fantastic. So thank you for having everything ready to go. You're a podcaster, so I didn't really have any worries, but there's often, there's often 15 to 20 minutes at the beginning where we're trying to like figure out whose sound is plugged into the wrong hole or whatever. Like.

Papa Rick (00:24.452)
It's often me. I'm sure I clicked that before. I apparently have changed. Damn technology.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (00:25.973)
Yeah.

Sorry.

Jennie (00:30.82)
Yeah. And I just want to make sure, Myisha Clairborne. Okay. I want to make sure I always have it in my head and then I forget to like double check the pronunciation. Okay.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (00:32.875)
What?

Papa Rick (00:38.018)
My each year.

Papa Rick (00:45.004)
That sounds kind of like English, British. Maisha Claiborne. Lady Maisha Claiborne.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (00:49.749)
You know, I've heard that Clare Bourne is, was it Irish or Scottish? Just this, that's what I'm hearing. I think it's Irish that the origin of the last name comes from. But my people are from Jamaica. Ha ha ha.

Jennie (00:50.314)
Clarable

each other.

Papa Rick (00:59.064)
Hmm. OK, maybe that's it. Maybe that's it.

Papa Rick (01:07.352)
Very cool.

Jennie (01:07.607)
Oh, awesome.

Um, all right, welcome back to the relational parenting podcast. We are here today with our guest, Maisha Clairborne. Welcome.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:18.569)
Thank you, it's so great to be here. Papa Rick.

Papa Rick (01:20.452)
Hi.

Jennie (01:21.558)
We are so excited to have you. You are just a wealth of knowledge. There will be an introduction before this recording where I list all of your credentials. But you are just fantastic, and the work that you do is fantastic. And I'm so excited for our audience to get all of the golden nuggets from you today.

Papa Rick (01:47.608)
All kinds of cool stuff.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:47.669)
Thank you. Looking forward to the conversation.

Jennie (01:50.994)
Yeah. So why let's see.

Jennie (01:57.462)
This is always the hardest part for me. I'm always so terrible at a, at starting, but, um, so my first question for you is that you started off as a family physician, right? What kind of catalyzed that transition from being a family physician into all of the different, uh, work that you do now.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (02:11.413)
Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (02:22.405)
Yes, my career is a journey. The first thing I think is that, I think that I have, I've always been off the beaten path. Like that's just been, maybe I attribute that to my mom who I call the OG entrepreneur. She struck out on her own, I think before it was super cool to do so. And so,

Jennie (02:25.774)
Hehehehe

Jennie (02:39.49)
Mmm.

Papa Rick (02:39.896)
Mmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (02:46.237)
I was always very interested in different things. And so even as a family physician, I was interested in integrative health, like holistic marrying traditional with the holistic. And as an undergraduate, I was a psychology major. And so I was always fascinated with the human behavior, why we do what we do, how the brain works, why exactly.

Papa Rick (03:08.745)
Why are they doing that? Yes. What are you thinking?

Maiysha Clairborne MD (03:12.797)
And I think it comes from a little bit of my upbringing as well, having a little bit of trauma in my background, understanding why is it that I went through what I went through, why did my stepfather at that time behave the way he behaved, why, why? That was my question, why, right? And so going into integrative medicine, I really loved it because there was this...

Jennie (03:28.672)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (03:37.197)
opportunity for me to heal with the mind body connection. But after a while, I know this just sounds weird, but I got bored. And I'll back that context. I think.

Papa Rick (03:48.813)
Huh.

Jennie (03:48.983)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (03:51.085)
Most family physicians go into family medicine because of the variety. We have these brains that are like, we wanna do everything and serve everyone, which you can't always do. And then I had the, on top of that, the interest of how I marry traditional with holistic types of therapy. So I was an acupuncturist and I learned energy medicine. I'm a Reiki master. And then I learned neuro-linguistic programming.

Jennie (03:57.124)
Mmm.

Jennie (04:00.96)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (04:17.156)
Wow.

Jennie (04:17.506)
Wow.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (04:21.079)
these various things to be able to increase the amount of healing that I could do with people. But at some point, and I don't know where this came from, I just recognized that my work in clinical medicine would not be the ultimate thing. And I think there was this point where I got

Jennie (04:38.179)
Hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (04:41.349)
I got a little bit bored, but then I got complete. Like, you know what? I think I could stop seeing patients and be okay, but what could I do? I still wanted to impact patients. I just didn't want to have direct care with patients anymore. And so how could I still heal and yet like not be in this one-to-one clinical relationship?

Jennie (04:55.882)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (05:04.868)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (05:05.333)
Part of the catalyst for that also was that was around the time that I had my son and that I had been in my career for 38 years. And I wanted to create the type of career that would allow me the freedom to be there for my son at a moment's notice without there being repercussions to my income and the people that I served.

Jennie (05:05.515)
Yeah.

Jennie (05:12.321)
Mmm.

Jennie (05:30.88)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (05:31.269)
And so that was another part of it as well. And all of that led me into coaching. And so I learned, you know, NLP, I learned hypnosis, I learned all of these things. I used them in my practice until it was time for me to do the next thing, which was coach burned out healthcare professionals. Yes. And for me, the way that showed up as impacting

Papa Rick (05:49.531)
Full circle, yeah.

Jennie (05:51.328)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (05:58.517)
on an exponential level is that, you know, if every doctor that I got to impact, I also impacted hundreds or thousands of their patients. So it was sort of like an indirect sort of patient care in a way. Moving up the impact ladder.

Jennie (06:07.2)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (06:07.829)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (06:12.696)
Moving up, moving up, moving up the food chain, extending your reach. Yeah, absolutely. Right. Interesting.

Jennie (06:19.818)
I love this. I feel so, I just have to share really quick that we, our paths are very aligned. I also studied psychology undergrad and I just, I constantly remember from like an early age, five, six, seven years old, just looking around me at my family life or my friends or whatever and just observing and questioning.

Like, why do they do that? Why is this happening? And I originally went to school for bio pre-med and switched to psychology. I did not become a doctor, but then the transition that you're talking about going from one-on-one with people to shifting your impact to the people who were serving those people.

I had the same realization a few years ago when I started my parent coaching journey where I've been a nanny for so long and I've worked with one or maybe two families at a time and would provide ongoing care and education and all of these things. And then I realized one day, if I taught parents, I could reach so many more children.

with my time and my energy and my skills. Just like you teaching doctors, you can now reach hundreds of their patients. And that was just, yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (07:43.133)
Right. Very good.

Papa Rick (07:43.492)
Yep, yep.

Papa Rick (07:49.208)
Fear of influence, yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (07:50.926)
Yeah, exactly. And then so then what happened after that, talking about sphere of influence, is that when 2020 came around, we know all the things that happened in 2020. We call it the tridemic, you know, the isolation, the pandemic, and the racial tension and violence. And so for me, that was a significant turning point.

Jennie (08:03.404)
Yup.

Papa Rick (08:11.968)
Yeah.

Jennie (08:12.462)
Mmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (08:16.957)
because it was the time where I had trained by this time, I had trained in neuro-linguistic programming as a trainer and I had gotten the knock, okay, it's time to teach the work that I've been using in coaching, teach it to other healthcare professionals. But then when 2020 happened, and I was invited by, who now is a very close, good friend, but she's also my business partner.

Jennie (08:25.909)
Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (08:44.913)
to step into social activism. And so then the expertise that I have in communication, the expertise that I have in psychological safety and trauma, that then got mapped into organizational work and teaching and it kind of sort of got infused into the anti-racism teaching that I do and consulting that I do. But.

Papa Rick (08:50.148)
Hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (09:12.733)
the psychological safety kind of is now standing on its own because we can look out at what's going on in a lot of organizations and corporations and see where the relationship between people is very transactional.

And remember the great resignation, when you really start to dissect what that is, it comes from this lack of safety. It comes from this very transactional employees being treated like a number. So that's what led me into the organizational work. And again, I think that elevated my sort of sphere of impact. And so now the work that I do has two arms. I do still teach the

Jennie (09:30.759)
Mm. Uh-huh.

Jennie (09:46.222)
Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (09:59.593)
the communication to individuals. I have a course called Communication That Transforms, and I use that for the individuals and for organizations. But also I teach neuro-linguistic programming and I certify other coaches, so that they can go out into their respective communities and use this transformational work to heal the people that they wanna serve. So those are the two arms in which I work. And it's been a wild ride because I think that

Jennie (10:13.246)
Oh wow.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (10:26.525)
For me, the transition has been very, it's been, I've been called down each path. It hasn't necessarily been like strategically planned as much as it's been called. And then I've had to sort of strategically plan it in reverse to make it, you know.

Jennie (10:40.032)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Papa Rick (10:42.92)
Yeah, yeah. That's a really interesting combination, amalgam of skills that are not, not topical, but all very current, you know, last few, you know, the, the pandemic and its effect on, uh, racial tension and work. And this is, this is, this is very cool. You are very much at the, at the center of what's going on, at least in America. It's going on all over the world. Isn't it?

Maiysha Clairborne MD (11:08.722)
Yeah.

It is, unfortunately.

Papa Rick (11:12.516)
You know, you know, so that's this is very cool. I'm anxious to hear what you have to say.

Jennie (11:12.874)
Yeah, yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (11:18.389)
Thank you.

Jennie (11:22.002)
Awesome. So you, so your transit, this transition kind of, you said that, um, becoming a mom was, was one of the pieces, um, that kind of took you, took you through that transition. Um, and I'm curious because a lot of what you are trained in and a lot of what you talk about, um, parallels to, to parenting. Um, and I'm, we've, we talked a little bit,

Papa Rick (11:30.861)
Mm.

Jennie (11:51.706)
on a phone call, you know, about your parenting journey. But I'm curious to hear from you how all of this training, NLP, the hypnosis, the integrative medicine, how has that influenced you as a parent? Like, how has that shifted your mindset from where you were maybe before you became a parent to the journey through parenting?

Maiysha Clairborne MD (12:20.681)
Yeah, well, what I'll start with is that I'm, you know, for those of you who cannot tell by my appearance, I am Gen X. Generation X. Right, right, right. Right, right, right. Raised by, you know, excuse me. Raised by an old school boomer. And

Jennie (12:28.578)
Hehehehe

Papa Rick (12:30.764)
We need little tattoos on our foreheads to label us.

Jennie (12:33.622)
We do. We'll put the levels into the YouTube videos. Millennial. Ha ha ha.

Papa Rick (12:37.432)
Here's your sign.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (12:49.381)
And I always say that I think that my mom, she went through what she went through with me growing up and she did the best she can with the resources that she had and she has done her work. Like she has done the work of healing and it has transformed our relationship. And so having said that, of course I came out, as an adult, I came out not even knowing if I wanted children based on my upbringing.

Jennie (13:04.606)
Mmm.

Papa Rick (13:08.228)
Good for her.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (13:18.109)
And then when I decided to have children, it was, I'm definitely not repeating the mistakes of my mom now. Of course, famous last words. Have I repeated some of those mistakes? Uncle Jeff. Uncle Jeff Francis. You know, there's some awareness and there's a skill set of apology, a willingness to apologize when I do mess up, that sort of thing. So what I'll say in terms of like my training.

Papa Rick (13:26.648)
Yeah. Right. Right, good luck with that. Yeah.

Jennie (13:28.621)
Right.

Jennie (13:34.487)
Right?

Jennie (13:42.206)
Mmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (13:47.289)
It's interesting because when I trained, even up to being a trainer as an NLP, a hypnotherapist, practitioner and trainer, I did most of that while my son was still very young. So he was like toddler-dill. And so I feel like...

Jennie (14:05.49)
Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (14:11.669)
I was using the work at work and using the work with patients before I was in my awareness to intentionally use it with my son, which sounds bonkers, but that's just the way I was. As a new mom, you're just sort of hanging on. And as a...

Papa Rick (14:21.732)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (14:25.824)
Yeah.

Jennie (14:29.222)
Right.

Papa Rick (14:30.838)
Yeah, it's a new experience, it's processing, you haven't formally gone out with it. Sure, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (14:33.489)
Right. Yeah, and so then what happened was when I started running my trainings, he was already four by the time I started running my trainings. That was when I really started to see, oh, this is all of the stuff that can work with kids too. And the more I taught it, the more it reminded me to implement it.

Papa Rick (14:56.962)
Yeah.

Jennie (14:57.221)
Yeah.

Jennie (15:02.966)
Mmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (15:03.089)
And yes, and intentionally. And what's been very interesting is to see him internalize this work and internalize the skills and the language skills and use it sometimes to my, you know, for me.

Papa Rick (15:03.712)
Yeah, intentionally, sure, yeah.

Papa Rick (15:21.88)
That was my first question is when, when did he start? How old was he or how long did it take for him to start turning it around and using it on you? Mother, you're not supposed to say that or good kid.

Jennie (15:22.839)
Right?

Jennie (15:28.912)
Uh-huh.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (15:30.385)
Good child. It was like, he was only about five or six when I started hearing these elements. And sometimes, and he's nine now, so sometimes I would use these language patterns and he'd be like, stop trying to hypnotize me, mommy. I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean? I'm like, stop using that language. Stop talking that way. I know what you're trying to do. I'm like.

Papa Rick (15:46.412)
There you go. There you go. They keep us honest, man. They keep us honest. Yeah. Stop trying to get me.

Jennie (15:53.937)
Right?

Maiysha Clairborne MD (16:01.385)
So yeah, what it did do, I think, was it allowed me to access a little bit more playfulness because I kind of look at it as this experiment. You know, how can I talk differently so that it's really a little bit of a game? So that he does what I need him to do, when I need him to do it, let's be honest.

Papa Rick (16:02.439)
That's great.

Jennie (16:03.163)
Aww.

Jennie (16:12.418)
Yeah.

Jennie (16:17.876)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (16:27.3)
There you go. You know, we talk about authoritarian and, you know, and controlling and stuff like that. And that's just a perfect example of, you don't just have to smack them with a stick to get them to do what you want. If you have some tools, then it can be a little more peaceable. It can be a little more of a fun game. You know, it's like, so what do I need to do?

Jennie (16:27.694)
Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (16:42.493)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (16:51.246)
Yes!

Papa Rick (16:51.832)
to make this happen. Yeah, no, that's terrific. That's exactly what we're about here.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (16:58.221)
And you know, what's been interesting too is that as I teach the work, one of the things that's very, that comes up over and over is value. Like what's important to me, but also what's important to him. And one of the things that I've learned is, you know, I think as kids, nobody, as a child, nobody asked me what was important to me. Like what was important to me. But when...

Papa Rick (17:12.707)
Yes.

Papa Rick (17:21.74)
I'm going to go.

Jennie (17:22.288)
Right?

Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (17:25.745)
can listen to my son that way and you know observe and see what's important to him then I can actually speak into that and create a context of we're a team we're a community and really speak into the values I can speak those values but I can also speak into and what's important to you is and thus if you help me with this you know scratch my back I'll scratch your son

Jennie (17:35.851)
Yes.

Papa Rick (17:40.548)
Hmm.

Jennie (17:41.599)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (17:52.504)
That's right. Which unfortunately is good preparation for life, right? You know, you got to look at the whole, the gestalt and it's like, well, so how do I get along in the world? That's what, that's what kids do.

Jennie (17:53.27)
Right?

Maiysha Clairborne MD (17:56.233)
EEEE

Jennie (18:05.346)
When it's relation, it's relationship skill, like in workplaces, in the real world, that's how you make it. That's how you create meaningful connections is that you are in fact, not just out for yourself, you're learning and valuing what other people are, like what they're.

values are and what matters to them and speaking to those things and creating authentic connections. And in the workplace, it's like if you want to be a leader of any kind, anywhere, you have to be able to speak to your employees in their language. And I think that that's been one of the biggest transitions in parenting culture now.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (18:50.1)
Right.

Papa Rick (18:50.339)
Yes.

Jennie (18:57.658)
is that we've spent so many years and decades trying to get children to speak the language of adults. And what we really need is as adults, as the educated ones, as the leaders, we have to learn their language first.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (19:14.929)
Yes, yes, I love that. And I think that I love how you talk about the shift of the culture of parenting. One of the things that I think can be super fun as a parent, it can be a little annoying sometimes too, but is to negotiate with our kids. Because as you talked about, it is creating that life skill. And so one of the things I'll tell you my son is great at is negotiating.

Jennie (19:32.662)
Yes.

Papa Rick (19:33.504)
Yeah, yeah.

Jennie (19:44.482)
Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (19:45.183)
and selling. And I have to, to the point where sometimes I have to reframe myself and say, woo, okay, this means he's gonna be really good at getting what he needs, right, when he's grown. Yeah, but he is a master negotiator. And it's something that, as a child, I was never allowed to do. And it doesn't mean...

Jennie (19:47.137)
Yes!

Papa Rick (19:48.392)
Pitching.

Jennie (19:54.24)
Right?

Right?

Papa Rick (19:57.496)
But yeah.

Jennie (20:07.532)
Mm-mm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (20:09.981)
that I don't still get to set boundaries because sometimes it just is not a negotiation. And sometimes I, you know, the, my, one of my phrases is end of conversation. Right? This is not a negotiation.

Jennie (20:15.713)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (20:20.852)
Yes. Yeah. And that's the important skill. You know, people, you see people at work out in the world and what they are is they're out of tools. They don't have the tools. You know, they go and they want to accomplish something for themselves or, you know, they get in charge of a team and they just, and they get frustrated and then they get dictatorial or, you know, they do something that doesn't work. And so teaching your children these skills and learning them yourself.

Jennie (20:21.278)
Yeah. Yep.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (20:36.385)
Right.

Papa Rick (20:50.556)
first, you know, you got to do the work and then passing that on to yourself or a youth group like you're doing, you know, coaching, whatever, putting that out in the world, you know, that's a real world-changing thing that we can do as parents is to learn and to teach our, give our kids those tools because then they will run the world, you know, that's bend the world to their... yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (21:14.001)
Yeah, I mean, it gives them resilience and flexibility of behavior. It gives them options in their brain. Like when they, yeah, it's like, exactly. They come up against an obstacle. It's not like, oh no, I have nothing else to do. It's like, oh, how do I navigate around this obstacle? You know, they're navigating around us parents obstacles all the time.

Jennie (21:16.942)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (21:22.168)
There's always another thing to try, right? They're not out of options.

Papa Rick (21:34.696)
Yeah, yeah, or fall into victimhood.

Yep. That's right. That's life. That's what we're here for is to hit obstacles. Yeah.

Jennie (21:40.042)
Yep. I think that that, I think that.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (21:44.249)
Exactly. We're an obstacle to them.

Jennie (21:47.798)
Right? I think that resilience, resiliency is such a huge, like, I don't know, I feel like from person to person, the way that someone finds resilience is so different. Because, you know, in the context of this podcast, in the context of what I teach, resilience is created by

Maiysha Clairborne MD (21:49.635)
Get ready, Jimmy.

Jennie (22:15.83)
by letting your children negotiate with you. And sometimes the answer is just going to be no. But they've tried three or four or five different ways to get what they want. And then sometimes the answer, like they're going to, you're going to negotiate back and you're going to come to a conclusion together, right? And then they learn sometimes this is going to work and sometimes it's not. And I'm going to get back up again, try again.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (22:22.729)
Hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (22:26.995)
Yeah.

Jennie (22:43.542)
And I think in the past, in parenting culture, what I have seen is that resilience is built by your children constantly failing or constantly hearing no or constantly going through traumatic situations. And there are adults that I know now who speak to resilience that they built during their childhood because of these

Maiysha Clairborne MD (23:01.822)
Right.

Jennie (23:12.11)
terrible things that adults did to them or these terrible, you know, like, well, I mean, traumas and then, but then yeah, just, just also on a less traumatic level, even just parents who, who gave them no voice whatsoever. But a lot of, a lot, there are kids who come out of that more resilient and tough.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (23:13.127)
Right.

Papa Rick (23:15.125)
Yeah.

Traumas or yeah, sometimes. Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (23:32.241)
Yeah.

Jennie (23:39.566)
There are a lot of people who come out of that, meek and quiet and people pleasers and scared to speak up and who go the opposite way. And I think that the definition of how we build resilience is changing.

Papa Rick (23:44.004)
It's frustrating.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (23:57.297)
Yes, yes indeed. Yes indeed it is. I do want to, can I clarify something? So one thing, you know, there is, I just want to clarify something around trauma because I think it's extremely important, is that even though it seems that a parent not giving a child a voice is less traumatic, it is still trauma.

Jennie (24:03.978)
Absolutely, yeah.

Jennie (24:23.606)
Absolutely.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (24:23.681)
It is different, it's different looking trauma and it's trauma and the turning out meek and unable to stand for oneself is part of a trauma response. The people pleasing is actually a part of a trauma response. It's the, yes, the tend to befriend response. So I, yeah. Oh yeah, we can have a whole conversation about that

Jennie (24:28.154)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (24:35.711)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (24:40.9)
trauma response.

Jennie (24:41.39)
I don't know.

Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (24:45.176)
That would be interesting to study, the kind, very, all the flavors of trauma and manifestations. Yeah.

Jennie (24:52.523)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (24:53.417)
That's right down my lane. I just wanted to, I don't want the listeners to go away with, oh, well, you know, because I grew up in a home witnessing domestic abuse, right? That's, that is a particular type of trauma. But I have people who grew up and their parents, like,

Jennie (25:05.774)
Huh. Uh-huh.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (25:13.041)
you know, they didn't have love in their family. I had love in my family. I witnessed domestic abuse, but my mom hugged me and, you know, she, there was a lot of complexity in the relationship, right? But I knew that I was loved. But then there are people who grew up, who they questioned it, whether it was because their parents were never present and they just threw money at them, which some people would be like, well, how's that traumatic? Well,

Papa Rick (25:23.652)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (25:24.811)
Yeah.

Jennie (25:36.654)
Uh huh.

Papa Rick (25:39.468)
No time but May.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (25:39.725)
You never know until you're in someone's shoes. So what is trauma for one person may not be trauma for another person. Trauma is universal. So I just wanted to like make sure that the audience is clear that trauma looks a whole lot of ways to a whole lot of people. Yeah, yeah.

Papa Rick (25:43.044)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (25:53.079)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (25:57.492)
Yeah, yeah. Evan, there's a lot of traumas in the world. One way I think of it is there are traumas that are actually illegal, that are obvious and cut and dry enough that we've legislated against them. And then there's a lot more that are, you know, there's no actual law against doing things. It's just not a great idea. And now we can manage it, you know, learn some skills to kind of manage the little ones.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (26:06.681)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (26:13.279)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (26:21.865)
They just float under the radar.

Papa Rick (26:27.34)
ourselves, you know.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (26:27.353)
Mm-hmm, yeah, exactly.

Jennie (26:29.314)
And I think I appreciate that clarification, Maisha, because I do think that that's a pervasive issue that still exists in parenting culture, is that, well, I don't beat my kid, I don't yell at my kid, so they're fine. So all these other mistakes are just mistakes, and I can always make up for them. And I think there's an element of like, yes, if you fail, if you have a failure moment as a parent,

Maiysha Clairborne MD (26:45.615)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (26:58.102)
going back and repairing and making up for it. But also like there are a lot of ways that we cause trauma to our children and we lay our anxieties or our fears or our shitty mindsets or we tell our, we don't show our kids love in the way that they need to be shown love. We don't truly know our children on an intimate level and we stay surface-based and we,

Maiysha Clairborne MD (27:14.197)
Thanks for watching!

Papa Rick (27:21.633)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (27:27.234)
feed them and clothe them and put them in school and so they're gonna be fine. But there's a much deeper level of emotional trauma that occurs and if you're not in tune with that and you're not willing to look at that truth, then it is and it does get exacerbated. I see it all the time.

Papa Rick (27:47.937)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (27:48.029)
Right, right. It's like there's the physical trauma you can see, and then there's the invisible psychological, emotional trauma that you can't see. And some of it is loud and some of it is very insidious. But the good news, because I always like to bring people to the good news, is parents be like, oh no, I'm traumatizing my kids. Oh, I'm traumatizing my kids. Oh my god.

Papa Rick (27:54.924)
Yeah, yeah.

Jennie (27:59.339)
Yes.

Papa Rick (28:06.968)
This is hard enough already, yeah.

Jennie (28:09.156)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (28:09.909)
When I first started really delving into trauma, I was like, oh my gosh, my son, already I'm traumatizing him, right? And the good news is that the research shows that it only takes one stable relationship over time so that children become resilient and they bounce back. So just, you know, the, yes, yeah.

Jennie (28:16.955)
Yeah.

Jennie (28:31.158)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (28:32.012)
Like a good role model, right? If you got one, but okay. Everybody doesn't have to be wonderful.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (28:38.621)
Yeah, everybody, I mean, you know, I think that could be that's an impossibility that everybody's going to be there's, there's always one, you know, there's always one that's often, that's a little bit off track. But but I think that we have to account for the children are very resilient, they are naturally resilient, and we can, if we if we present them with the right environment to be right. And so I love what you said, coming back to me to the culture of how

Papa Rick (28:45.16)
Exactly.

Jennie (28:51.715)
Right.

Papa Rick (29:02.052)
Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (29:08.349)
people how children are becoming resilient is changing. And also I think that we, you know, to some extent swung from one extreme to the other for a while. And so we do, I do think there's, you know, a subset of the generations, the younger generations that are still building that are lacking resilience. And I'm gonna blame it on my...

Jennie (29:13.134)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (29:21.422)
Hmm.

Jennie (29:31.296)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (29:34.829)
the Gen X, my generation of people who were trying to make it so much better for their kids that they took away, and it's not everybody, but I'm saying I've seen it, you know? They took away the struggle. They take away all of the opportunity for growth. And so, I think that especially with people like me who, you know, like I...

Papa Rick (29:41.932)
Hmm.

Jennie (29:45.733)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (30:02.089)
middle class, look well, I've got this training. It would be easy for me to, for my child to be going through life feeling like, oh, there's no obstacles in life. That would be very easy. And so I have to intentionally create these boundaries or these barriers or these obstacles so that you can develop the resilience. I may have the means to do something, but I may say no.

Jennie (30:08.334)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (30:15.554)
Right, right.

Jennie (30:25.201)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (30:26.772)
Yeah, don't get them all out of the way.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (30:31.505)
You know, I'm, there may be, there may be times I say no, just so that he can experience no, right? Because I say yes a lot.

Jennie (30:39.724)
Mm.

Yeah.

Papa Rick (30:45.484)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, when people complain about the kids, I always, my first reaction is like, well, where's their parents? Right? You don't get to complain, in my generation, we don't get to complain about the Gen Xers or the Gen Zers or anybody because we, I mean, we started that chain. And so it's like, well, so what might you do different in the future with your grandchildren or whatever?

Maiysha Clairborne MD (30:46.604)
And so.

Jennie (30:53.438)
Yeah, well, who raised them? Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (30:53.917)
Yeah, yeah, we'll make some.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (31:07.689)
Right.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (31:14.119)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (31:14.38)
You know, when you're talking with people, it's like back to the community thing. We were all responsible for all these people. And so I agree. It's time for a time for a reality check, time for a correction. Most people would not survive a wagon ride in a wagon out to the middle of Kansas anymore. You know, it's not that, not that kind of stuff.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (31:18.132)
Right.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (31:26.945)
Yeah, forget that too.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (31:34.653)
That's right. Yeah.

Jennie (31:38.666)
I think as a society, a lot of struggle has been removed as well. So I think it has to be a very intentional awareness and intentional action taking to not let yourself or your children become so comfortable that, I mean, for me and my personal experience, when I get too comfortable, life gets boring. I get depressed. Like...

Papa Rick (32:08.674)
Yeah.

Jennie (32:08.694)
And I think, and I think that's true for a lot of people. And I think that, um, people, you know, the one that comes to mind is, um, cold plunging and there's, okay, I love it. I've done it. I like, I can't do it because I'm pregnant and I, and I hate that I can't do, I can't do the sauna or the cold plunge, but there, but they, you know, there's research, there's, there's.

Papa Rick (32:19.648)
No. I hate that.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (32:20.297)
is that what i see i'm like

Jennie (32:35.47)
met their physiological benefits to both of those things. But we are no longer exposed. Like cave people didn't have cold plunges because they had to weather zero degree temperatures with no insulation. They had furs and they hid in their caves. But we don't experience the extremes of the natural world the way that we used to.

Papa Rick (32:37.74)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (33:04.178)
circumstances.

Jennie (33:06.522)
And even something as basic as screen time, because nowadays that's such a huge topic in parenting. And something that makes parenting so much easier when you're stressed out, when you're trying to cook dinner, when you just need five minutes to yourself is putting your kid in front of a screen. And...

Papa Rick (33:20.)
No more.

Jennie (33:33.346)
the more that you do it, the more that you do it. And I've seen the snowball effect in many families. And I'm not saying like zero screen time, don't ever let your kid look at a screen, but the amount of children's iPads that I see when I go out into the world, that like the parents and children are just never interacting. And like it's gotten to a level of comfort.

of convenience of processed foods, the grocery store. Yeah. All. Yeah. It's something. And you know, there are wonderful parts of society where it has made our lives easier, but there's a line and you have to find it for yourself and you have to find it for your own family. It's going to be different for everybody. Where is the line of too comfortable?

Papa Rick (34:05.248)
convenience. It's like everything else. Processed foods. It's why we all get fat, because we're sitting around eating. Yeah, it's easy.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (34:06.109)
It's convenient.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (34:12.731)
Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (34:29.748)
Right.

Jennie (34:30.998)
Because then that's when children growing up in a too comfortable environment, not allowed to struggle through life's natural roadblocks, that they quit building resilience, they expect yeses, they, you know, all of the time, and then they go out into the world and discover that that's not real, and they fall apart, and they have no skills to overcome it.

Papa Rick (34:31.364)
weren't made for that.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (34:53.129)
Right.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (34:56.573)
Listen, I think that some of the violence that we see, I mean, there's various, so we could say that there's the gun violence, right? The school stuff that goes on, kid being told no, a parent being told no, and rather than dealing with their anger in a different kind of way or dealing with that rejection, they go to a...

you know, to a mechanism. I've seen in the younger generation, it's very interesting where women who have been approached or propositioned by men like, hey, can I get your number? If they say no, violence incited against women for saying no to something like that. Like, right, not used to hearing no.

Jennie (35:45.282)
Yep, yep, yep.

Papa Rick (35:47.872)
Not used to hearing no. Hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (35:53.061)
And that is crazy to me.

Papa Rick (35:55.616)
Yeah, that's just a lack of basic social skills.

Jennie (35:59.202)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (35:59.253)
Right, but then you got to look at the parent who didn't tell them no. Right, who didn't tell them no?

Papa Rick (36:01.348)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (36:06.712)
right? You don't get to complain about a kid without looking at the parent and going, how did that happen? You got to fix it in earlier generations.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (36:14.441)
Yeah, yeah. Or the other piece is what were they watching in their household that when someone said no they thought it was okay to incite that kind of violence because perhaps they grew up in a household where when someone said no the other person incited violence until there was a yes.

Jennie (36:21.164)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (36:28.489)
Yeah.

Jennie (36:29.739)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (36:36.651)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (36:37.045)
So, you know, it's like, these are the things we look at and understanding that it's interesting. I had this recently had this conversation that as a parent, we must understand that whether or not we are directly interacting in certain ways with our kids or not, our kids are always being impacted by our environment.

Jennie (36:56.172)
Yes.

Papa Rick (36:56.448)
Yep, we're teaching them whether we're doing it on purpose or not just by, yep, yep. And you're a major figure for a kid. Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (37:03.481)
Exactly, they're watching the dynamics of the household. They're watching how we react. They're watching how we don't react, what we say and what we don't say. Exactly, what we treat people in restaurants. Yeah, so it's like they're always watching and listening and learning and absorbing. And so that's why, you know.

Papa Rick (37:09.943)
Yeah.

How do you talk on the phone to other people? And yeah, everything's an example.

Papa Rick (37:20.361)
Yes.

Jennie (37:20.61)
Yup.

Papa Rick (37:25.868)
Yeah.

Jennie (37:26.102)
Yep. Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (37:29.297)
Paparick, which you said earlier, which was, we gotta do the work.

Papa Rick (37:35.48)
You got to, yeah, Jenny says this all the time. You know, there's no way, there's no way out, but through, right? You can hunker down. Um, uh, but there's, there's no real way out until you get through it and deal with it and you can't really help anybody else do it until you've done it. You know, I mean, you can support, but until you've walked the path, you know, walking a mile and the other guy's moccasins kind of thing, it's, uh,

Maiysha Clairborne MD (38:02.078)
Right.

Papa Rick (38:03.972)
A lot of parenting is doing a lot of work on yourself, like you were talking about earlier, and then realizing that's how you need to deal with your kids. It's tough being a role model all the time. People talk about role models, sports stars and stuff like that. It's like, well, mom, dad, you better check yourself because you're a role model whether you like it or not. Maybe that's the hard part. You can't do it perfectly.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (38:14.676)
Yeah.

Jennie (38:17.654)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (38:22.911)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (38:23.893)
That's right.

Jennie (38:25.548)
Yep.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (38:28.551)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (38:30.364)
and you're always on display with your kids. And so it is kind of a responsibility, you know, it's a load.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (38:36.077)
It really is. It really is. And it's interesting, I think, too, to note that for parents, especially first-time parents, but I think even with parents of multiples, that with every developmental stage that your child goes through, you're going to need to do more work, you know?

Jennie (38:49.838)
Uh huh. Yep. It's new. Yep.

Papa Rick (38:52.516)
I hate that. I hate that. I started off parenting going, I am going to nail this. We are going to figure this out. And then it changed. Next week it changes. It's like, damn it. Yeah. What's up with that?

Jennie (39:01.054)
Yep.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (39:02.649)
Just when you think you got it down, they turn four or they turn five. And then you're like, what is this new voice? Who is this new kid in my house? What's this new attitude happening? Oh, they're in this developmental stage now. So they're like trying to get their autonomy or they're trying to do this. But like go back to the developmental stages. And for, and that's, you know, they, they are very intuitively connected to your buttons, right?

Jennie (39:08.536)
Yep.

Papa Rick (39:12.041)
Yeah!

Jennie (39:12.636)
Uh huh.

Right?

Papa Rick (39:19.213)
Yeah!

Jennie (39:24.514)
Right?

Jennie (39:31.341)
Oh yeah.

Papa Rick (39:31.865)
Oh, well they're studying them.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (39:32.005)
Yes. So they will. Oh yeah, they will press all of them with each developmental stage. And so it's just like the layer that it's, it's a mountain with no top. This whole personal development thing as a parent, you know, I can say.

Papa Rick (39:44.244)
Exactly, exactly. Well, that's how we get to enlightenment. What is it? Where are the Zen people going? I can't think of the word now, but you know, it's... My favorite analogy is after I watched Jurassic Park and then I was teaching, I was teaching Sunday school or something, had a crowd of kids that I didn't know what to do with. And I realized they're all little velociraptors. There's that scene in the first Jurassic Park, right?

Maiysha Clairborne MD (39:48.865)
I keep hearing.

Jennie (39:51.565)
Right?

Jennie (40:09.873)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (40:12.204)
where the game guy is introducing them to the velociraptors. He sidles up and says, they're systematically testing the fences. They're intelligent. You can see it in their eyes. And I'm like, that's children. We are the fences as parents in a community, and the kids are all velociraptors going, how do I get past this fence? Just because I want to. I don't even know what's out there. I'm just testing everything.

Jennie (40:16.878)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (40:25.76)
and follow.

Jennie (40:34.495)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (40:41.268)
And it's like, man, you got to, yeah, it's a great thing. It's a perfect thing. They're just doing their jobs, you know, but you got, you got to learn where to put up fences and where to like, okay, you can, you know, that, that I walked through there, that's not going to kill you, you know, you can go over there. I like.

Jennie (40:42.094)
Well, that's how they learn. They're learning, which is what they're supposed to do. Ha ha ha.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (40:57.477)
Yeah, that's a brilliant metaphor. I love it. And yes, I might have to use that. I might have to quote you on that. That's a brilliant metaphor. But what's also interesting is that, what's a lot of psychologists, a lot of therapists say is that them testing the boundaries, them doing that, that is an indication of them feeling safe.

Papa Rick (41:07.904)
I would be honored. It's all yours.

Jennie (41:09.186)
Hahaha!

Jennie (41:25.75)
Yes.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (41:25.909)
They'll only do that with the parents. They'll push the boundaries with the parents that they feel or the people they feel the most safe. They trust them to set the boundary, to hold the boundary, but they also trust them not to hurt or harm them. Exactly.

Papa Rick (41:28.781)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (41:33.688)
That's an excellent point.

Papa Rick (41:40.14)
get, yeah, they're not afraid of the fence, yeah.

Jennie (41:44.118)
I hear from a lot of moms who tend moms tend to be the ones with the comfort and the, and the safety. Um, not always, but I hear a lot of moms, um, and there's a million memes out there too of like, Oh great. I'm my child's safe place, which means I get the worst of them most of the time. And yeah, well, and like you see little kids or I mean any aged child.

Papa Rick (42:07.393)
Bye!

Jennie (42:13.442)
come home from school where they've had to mask all day and behave and do the right thing and talk a certain way or whatever, and they come home and they fall apart or they need to decompress or just like any of us, if we go to work and come home, we need an hour before we're ready to talk to anybody in our household or whatever it is. It takes a massive amount of energy to act right.

Papa Rick (42:17.773)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (42:21.281)
Control, yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (42:41.135)
Mm.

Jennie (42:41.506)
for seven or eight hours a day, and then you come home and fall apart. And I see it in preschoolers a lot. It's cause they're so young, they're so little, they have no ability to hide it. They come home from preschool and they're just little velociraptors. And they fall apart and they cry and they scream at every little thing, but their teacher is like, they were so wonderful and they helped this person and they wanted to be the cleaner upper and whatever.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (42:49.202)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (42:56.637)
Yeah.

Jennie (43:10.314)
And they come home to you and you're like, why do you treat, you know, it's hard not to take it personally when you are the safe place because you think you're doing something wrong. And the reality is like, you're actually doing everything right. They're they feel safe with you. But the reward, you don't get to see the reward of that. And unless you're really tuning into like what other people are saying about your child, or when you see how functional and wonderful they are as an adult, or you watch them.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (43:16.057)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (43:17.312)
Yes, it is.

Papa Rick (43:21.636)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (43:26.047)
Yep.

Papa Rick (43:26.488)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (43:34.814)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (43:39.585)
Yeah.

Jennie (43:40.098)
be in like a wonderful healthy marriage or you know all these other pieces that it's kind of a delayed gratification role being a parent being the safe place.

Papa Rick (43:48.42)
Mm-hmm. That is such a thing as a parent getting a good report about your kid when they didn't know they were under observation, you know, they're not yet aware of the parent network talking to one another. And it comes and come to think of it, that's a great reason to be part of a parent network, be with other parents and make sure you say something. If you catch an admirable act, catch them being good, right? Make sure you pass it on to the parent.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (43:49.961)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (44:01.013)
That's right.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (44:06.357)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (44:12.941)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (44:16.575)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (44:17.188)
Because yeah, there's so much of them once they're out in the world. You know, you don't get to see that. So let the parents know, encourage the parents. That's a good point.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (44:25.361)
Yeah. I think also, I think being a part of a good parent network helps you know that you're not alone. There are so many conversations, you know, where as much as, you know, I'm in the personal development space, but sometimes I just need to commiserate with my moms. I'm like, let me just tell you, you know, like we get, the first five minutes is, let me just tell you what my boy did. Is your boy doing, like what's happening? Is this a normal thing? Is this a nine-year-old boy thing? Or is, am I, Chris, is this like a past?

Jennie (44:32.972)
Yes.

Papa Rick (44:35.722)
Yeah.

Jennie (44:41.664)
Yes.

Papa Rick (44:41.896)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (44:47.948)
Yeah, this is kicking my butt. Yeah, what is up?

Jennie (44:53.204)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (44:54.254)
That's right! Or is he an alien?

Maiysha Clairborne MD (44:55.217)
Like what's happening here? And then they're like, oh no, my son did this or my daughter did this. And we're like, oh shoot, I'm not alone. This is a normal developmental thing, you know?

Jennie (45:05.986)
Yeah. Yes.

Papa Rick (45:06.636)
That's right. We're under the bell curve. We're in the middle of the bell curve. OK.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (45:11.001)
Right, right. So I think that's another great reason to have a parent network because you can you can do a little bit of commiseration, especially when you're a part of a parent network who has like minds because you know you're going to commiserate but then you know you're going to come back to all right these are the solution oriented talk or you're not you know just slamming your kids.

Papa Rick (45:16.738)
Yeah.

Jennie (45:30.239)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (45:31.869)
But what you're doing is you're getting the release. And if you think about, you know, Jenny, what you said, the kids who have to act right the entire day, they have to mask the entire day, imagine as an adult, people who have to do that. Because, you know, let's be real, people go to work and they have to be a certain way for their employer. They may be masking for their employer all day. And imagine someone, and their brains are fully developed for the most part, right?

Jennie (45:43.774)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Papa Rick (45:54.464)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (46:02.916)
Chronologically, anyway.

Jennie (46:03.01)
We hope.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (46:03.525)
And then, it's not a lot of people speaking, right? They may be arrested in development. But then imagine a five-year-old or a six-year-old or a small person whose brain is not fully developed and how much more brain energy that takes. So when they come home, all they wanna do is, and so for my son,

Jennie (46:07.134)
Yeah. Uh-huh.

Papa Rick (46:08.216)
The time has passed, you know?

Jennie (46:21.757)
Oh, yes.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (46:28.729)
One of the things I know about him is for him, he's a very physical, he's a very kinesthetic person. And what he wants most when we get home is a hug. And so oftentimes, yes, that's the way he gets to unmask. And then, you know, I give him his space and he goes and he plays. And we don't do any TV during the week. He's allowed podcasting, he's not allowed even watching.

Papa Rick (46:34.156)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (46:38.904)
There you go.

Jennie (46:39.007)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (46:41.548)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (46:45.112)
Yeah.

Jennie (46:54.967)
Hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (46:55.089)
watching stuff on the device, but he can listen to podcasts while he plays with his Beyblade.

Jennie (47:01.376)
Yeah

Papa Rick (47:02.739)
I don't even know what that is. Wow, I'm out of it.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (47:03.653)
It's like, you know, it's like an anime thing, this toy and this is spinner. And, you know, yes, it's that it's like, it's adjacent to Pokemon. If you've heard of Pokemon, yeah, kind of Pokemon adjacent, but he's into anime a little bit, but yeah. So the first thing we do when we get in the house is I just, I just hold him for a little bit, right? I hold them, give them that for how many minutes he needs it. Then.

Papa Rick (47:07.552)
Okay, okay.

Jennie (47:13.377)
Mmm.

Papa Rick (47:14.273)
I'm so out of it. I got to.

Papa Rick (47:25.632)
Yeah, yeah.

Jennie (47:26.475)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (47:31.373)
I can go back upstairs, do what I need to do, finish my work for the day. He can decompress doing his play stuff for the day, then we can come back together for dinner and just hang and have conversation and then do our mom-son stuff for the rest of the day.

Papa Rick (47:40.314)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (47:45.54)
People forget... I'm sorry, sweetie, go ahead.

Jennie (47:45.934)
That's what.

I was just gonna say we, my husband and I have the same, the same rule. It's one of our agreements that we established very early on is that when, and it came from me needing, like when I come home, like I just need a long hug. Like I don't wanna talk. I don't, like I just want, I just need a long hug. And then like whatever he was doing, cause he used to, he used to,

go to school from home, the pandemic hit when he was in nursing school. Um, and I was nannying full time. And so I would be gone all day. He'd be home alone all day and going crazy. And I'd be like getting touched out and, and talked out and all of the things. And we'd come home and be on just completely different levels. And we eventually decided that our, this reunion, this end of the day reunion, um,

would be, he would stop whatever he was doing and greet me at the door when he knew I was coming home and we would just hug for a minimum of 20 seconds. Sometimes I was like, I just need to lay on your shoulder for like a minute and a half, man. And then, and then he can, and then he can go back to doing whatever he was doing. I need, you know, half an hour or whatever to like unpack my lunch and just have silence or whatever.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (48:56.755)
Yes.

Papa Rick (48:57.01)
Can I have 50 more seconds?

Jennie (49:10.73)
Um, and then we'd come back together to have like an evening together and he could tell me all about his day or what, you know, whatever it was, but yeah, that, like that reunion time when we're away from one another with our, like specifically parents and children, um, or partners or whatever, but when, when you're away from each other for a long period of time and everyone's out in the world doing what they're doing, when you come home to your safe space.

Papa Rick (49:31.489)
Thank you.

Jennie (49:40.514)
having even a 20 second ritual like that, where it's just like, okay, we're back together, we're reestablishing heartbeats and safety and yeah.

Papa Rick (49:43.895)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (49:50.898)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (49:51.192)
Yeah. Consciously managing that transition, that ritual was the word that came to my mind too, was that's a great tool to have in your toolbox and for your kids to witness. The thing I was going to jump in about was we forget how much energy our brain takes. The brain uses up like 20, I remember playing chess as a kid and just being exhausted.

Jennie (49:55.927)
and

Maiysha Clairborne MD (49:57.881)
Yes.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (50:01.391)
It is.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (50:05.545)
Yes.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (50:12.23)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (50:13.09)
Right?

Papa Rick (50:18.464)
at the end of a game, just like I'd been playing. I couldn't figure out why I'd be hungry after playing a two-hour game of chess. And that's kids. Anytime you're at work, you're going from work you to home you or whatever, it'd be great to be aware of it and have a ritual and make the transition, ditch the mask, and some way to transition formally.

Jennie (50:19.377)
Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (50:21.563)
Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (50:27.421)
Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (50:43.474)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (50:46.776)
kind of semi-formally. That's a great idea. I like that.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (50:49.329)
Yeah, absolutely. I think also in like demonstrating that transition and one of the things that I do with my son because let's talk about, you know, you got the introvert parents and extrovert parents and introvert kids and extrovert kids. And that's a whole, ooh, that could be a whole good conversation as well. But I'm, I don't, right? I don't. I'm a tested introvert. So I do like value that.

Jennie (51:07.754)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (51:08.984)
So complicated. Ha ha ha.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (51:19.057)
that quiet time, that I need that transition time. And my job is to talk to people all day. Like that's my job. Like I'm in meetings or I'm coaching or I'm training or I'm consulting. And so one of the things that I have over time taught my son and I use this phrase a lot, how my brain works or mommy's brain needs, right? And so sometimes, a lot of times, you know,

Papa Rick (51:22.689)
needed.

Papa Rick (51:41.676)
Hmm. Okay.

Jennie (51:42.087)
Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (51:45.305)
If I have a day with some breaks in it, then I can like drive to his school in silence. And by the time I get him, I'm good because I know as soon as he gets in the car, he's going to be like, right. But every now and again, when I have an extremely busy day.

Papa Rick (51:56.908)
Yep.

Jennie (51:57.235)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (52:04.293)
and I come directly from one thing to pick him up, and it's been like all day, I can say to him, you know, I need five minutes of silence. I'll set the alarm. And he understands that, and he watches the alarm. And when it goes off, I can say, okay, I'm ready, right? And so that kind of communication helps to not only train your child,

Jennie (52:17.526)
Uh huh.

Jennie (52:21.995)
Yes.

Jennie (52:26.817)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (52:34.049)
on how to communicate their needs, but also it helps them to really understand and be able to honor what you need as well. And so now there's this thing that my son will do because he always finishes dinner before me because he eats fast. I mean, and also because I always sit down to the table five minutes after him because I'm usually making my dinner after his. He will ask me when he finishes, do you want me to stay and keep you company?

Jennie (52:42.56)
Yes.

Jennie (52:56.738)
Right.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (53:02.577)
Or would you like some quiet time? Or would you like some alone time? Yeah. And so sometimes I'll say, well, whatever you want. He's like, no, what do you want, mommy? And I'm like.

Jennie (53:04.878)
Uhhh

Papa Rick (53:05.071)
Wow.

Jennie (53:11.912)
NOOOOO

Papa Rick (53:12.392)
Aww, this is really turning into emotional intelligence here. This is really cool, you know? You know?

Jennie (53:16.29)
Well...

Maiysha Clairborne MD (53:16.737)
Yeah. And so, you know, oftentimes I'll say, yeah, keep me company, let's talk. What do you wanna talk about? Or sometimes I will be like, you know what? I think I'll just take some quiet time and he'll go and he'll play. And then, you know, usually when I'm done and clean the kitchen, I'll go in there with him and then I'll give him, you know, the specified amount of time that he needs, which by the way, because children, their concept of time is just so different.

Jennie (53:27.211)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (53:42.684)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (53:43.049)
Parents be thinking, oh, I got to spend hours and hours and hours and hours with my kid to make them feel like to be a good parent and to make, no, 15 minutes. 20 minutes, yeah.

Jennie (53:49.035)
Mm.

Papa Rick (53:52.18)
Yeah, it's really management. You know, you're, you're consciously managing your feelings yourself. It's like, I need a minute, you know, and communicating expectations and all those good, healthy, positive adult, uh, qualities, you know, you look for in a partner. Nine-year-old kid can do it. That's cool.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (54:00.231)
Yeah!

Jennie (54:13.526)
I mean, that's like advanced relationship skills level that he can offer you.

to stay, do you want me to stay at the table with you or would you like some alone time? That's stuff that like, that's consideration that, my husband and I are still working on in different situations. That's, I mean, adults struggle with that kind of awareness. And you also mentioned, Myisha, the mom group, the parent community, where you,

Maiysha Clairborne MD (54:34.517)
I'm sorry.

Papa Rick (54:36.738)
Thank you.

Jennie (54:51.138)
can just go in and spend the first five minutes just like bitching or being like, my kid did this, like, does your kid do that? I feel crazy. And there's something about authentic communication that we're all like, we're also, we talk about this a lot on this podcast is that you can't just be, you can't just make everything sunshine and rainbows with your kids. You can't hide.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (54:54.462)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (54:56.6)
bench a little.

Jennie (55:19.106)
the reality of life because then your kid grows up and they don't understand that other people besides them have needs, that they play a role in society if they're not playing a role in your house where they're giving and receiving. And I think this is another parent culture shift is that we went from, you know, we swung from kids don't speak unless they're spoken to, to.

sacrifice yourself and everything and your needs to make sure your kids' needs are met. And I feel like we're slowly, in the last 10 years or so, swinging back to a more centered area and a more balanced place of like, I'm a human being too, my child is a human being, and we need to be as real as possible, as real world as possible with our children.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (55:50.255)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (56:11.526)
inside the household because what's inside the household needs to reflect what we want them to find outside the household. Not the worst part of what exists outside of our household. We don't need to be mean or rude or yell because that's the reality that exists outside the household. But we also can't cover up and be toxically positive all the time and pretend everything's okay either.

Papa Rick (56:18.796)
model the world it should be.

Jennie (56:39.786)
Like there has to be a real world balance inside of the home and teaching your child that you also have needs and saying, Hey, I really want to hear all about your day. I just need five minutes right now. My brain is, is really tired and it needs to rest for a minute and just putting it in words they can understand at whatever age they're at. Your kid will be, Oh my God, your, your connection with your kid will be so much deeper.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (57:01.719)
Thank you.

Jennie (57:08.854)
by simply communicating in a real way.

Papa Rick (57:14.424)
that we're all that way. That busyness in your head when you feel like screaming, I get that too. Let's all take, you know, you and me, we're the same. Here's how you manage that. Give me five minutes, you go play, whatever, and then we'll go, yeah, you're teaching them. That's great.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (57:15.54)
Yeah.

Jennie (57:16.534)
Yeah.

Yes.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (57:24.186)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (57:28.921)
Yeah, yeah. And I also think that we need to empower our kids with skills as well. You know, like I think that from the, again, the swing from the kids are like the little Cinderella's and Cinderella's of the house to now, to now we have, you know, someone who cleans the house once a week.

Jennie (57:46.17)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (57:48.364)
Cinderfellas, I like that.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (57:55.637)
and they don't do anything, they don't cook, they don't do, you know, like that kind of thing. In my household, my son makes, you know, my son started making his own lunch when he was four, supervised. My son will wipe the table, my son is now responsible for both the bathroom, where the bathrooms, he's, you know, like he sweeps the floor. I mean, he's, I did chores growing up. That's one thing I, you know, in terms of old school values, it's one of the things, it's one thing that I kept.

Jennie (57:59.972)
Yeah.

Jennie (58:06.683)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Papa Rick (58:07.362)
Nice.

Jennie (58:16.827)
Nice. Yep.

Papa Rick (58:19.142)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (58:23.189)
Because I see now some of these young people, Gen Z people, who can't boil an egg or boil pasta. And I'm like, how is that possible? Like I grew up in a house cooking whole meals. Now I do know that could be cultural. Some of that could be cultural. Some of that could be circumstantial. Like, you know, if a person didn't grow up, you know, I have a friend who, she said, oh, I grew up on gas station food. So her circumstance was her circumstance. And so now she's learning how to cook.

Jennie (58:30.518)
Right?

Jennie (58:34.57)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (58:35.492)
What's wrong with them?

Jennie (58:50.158)
Mmm, yeah.

Papa Rick (58:51.833)
Wow. Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (58:53.197)
Yeah, and I can't, I didn't, that wasn't me. Like I grew up in a household where I was responsible for dinner a lot of times because I'm the oldest and my mom worked and she was a single mom as well. And so she was, yeah, so I was helping like that. So I think that I was definitely parentified. I was definitely, so, you know, there's the balance. There was a balance between, you know, I was a lock key kid, what do you call it, like a lock key kid. So it's a balance between locking key in our children and also...

Papa Rick (58:56.56)
Yeah.

Jennie (59:01.098)
Mmm.

Papa Rick (59:01.58)
Yeah, yeah. You were half mom, yeah?

Papa Rick (59:08.408)
You were parentified. That's a word we like around here.

Jennie (59:17.908)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (59:17.974)
Yeah, yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (59:21.969)
you know, having them be without simple life skills, like folding clothes and washing clothes and you know, cleaning your house and things of that nature, right? Knowing how to shop for food and things of that nature, so.

Papa Rick (59:37.316)
Yeah, yeah. I think those last two things we talked about are conjoined, are joined together because when your son started making his lunch at four, did you jump in and correct how he was doing it overly? Or I mean, did you allow it? You had to kind of lower your expectations for what a school lunch looked like a little bit. Yeah, exactly.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (59:45.172)
Mm-hmm.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (59:59.702)
Yeah, I had to allow the myth.

Papa Rick (01:00:04.848)
Now, if you're going to expect your four-year-old to make his own lunch and not leave a bit of a trail of destruction behind in the beginning until he's got some more practice or whatever or gets older, that's going to be a problem. Those things, that expectation of perfection in the world and teaching things and allowing kids to practice and be horrible, spill the milk once in a while and stuff and becoming more competent sooner.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:00:10.054)
Right, right.

Right.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:00:20.229)
Right, exactly.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:00:28.543)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:00:32.452)
Those things are, you know, expectations of perfection in the world are not compatible with anything, including your own thinking, you know. It's a mess. Let it be a mess. Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:00:35.749)
Oh gosh, yeah. And do things together too, like make it fun. You know, like, you know, I say, my son will now come in and say, can I help you, can I help you cook dinner? And I'm like, yeah, what do you want to do? I was like, go on, you put the water on for the pasta. And then he's like, well, I want to put the ravioli in. I'm like, well, here's the spoon. Here's how you do it. And then when he eats his food, he has a different appreciation for it because he made it.

Jennie (01:00:39.339)
it.

Jennie (01:00:42.699)
Yes.

Jennie (01:00:52.789)
Mmmm

Papa Rick (01:00:53.038)
Yeah!

Jennie (01:00:59.597)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:01:02.979)
Uh-huh. Yes.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:01:03.697)
and he's like, oh, did you taste good, mommy? I'm like, oh, it tasted so good, you know? A ravioli, a frozen ravioli that you boiled and put some, yeah!

Papa Rick (01:01:08.2)
Yeah, yours is better than mine. That's right. The canned sauce, convenient sauce.

Jennie (01:01:08.487)
Yes!

Jennie (01:01:13.227)
Right?

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:01:16.929)
Yes!

Jennie (01:01:18.39)
Something we say all the time though is like, do like bring your kids into, and I see it, I see it in parenting, I see it in the nanny world all the time is like, we would, you know, the expectation of nannies is to clean the house while the kids are napping, to clean up after, like, you know, pick up the toys at the end of the day, make, so that when the parents come home, the house is, you know, they come home to a clean house or whatever. And, and I see so many nannies being burnt out or feeling frustrated.

or whatever because they don't have a break or they don't have any time to themselves. But the, you know, and something I started doing about five years ago in that career is I was, I looked around and I was like, and it was about the same time I started becoming more and more aware of, you know, gentle parenting, relational parenting, you know, these other like research-backed skills that were, that I was looking around and being like, this is it, this doesn't feel right, this isn't right, like something's missing here.

exploring my own childhood, all those things. And I started like after lunch, like we would have 15 minutes before we would go up for nap time of cleanup time. We would clean up the kitchen, the kids would clean up their toys or whatever it was. And then, you know, we made it fun. We made it a game cause they were really young. And then, you know.

there was a lot of resistance to bath time after dinner. And so I made up a song about naked babies. And it became, and they would like, we'd be like, naked baby time and they'd get excited. And they'd like, they'd like smack their trays, their high chairs and they'd sing the song and like, and it was a whole thing. And it's just, you know, I'd have them, they'd,

Papa Rick (01:02:52.787)
Did you sing that for us now? I'd like to hear that song.

Jennie (01:03:11.798)
the older one, I think he started cracking his own eggs for breakfast when he was like two and a half. He would get up on his stool up on the counter next to me and he'd pull out the eggs and he'd crack his own eggs into the bowl and he'd dig the shells out if he dropped a shell in. And I mean, all of these different pieces where I started bringing them in to cook with me instead of being like, go play, go play, go play. Or, you know, they had a little cleanup set of like a little tiny broom, but a little...

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:03:34.45)
Right.

Papa Rick (01:03:37.282)
Exactly.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:03:40.041)
Yeah, that's funny how that... Yep!

Jennie (01:03:40.502)
tiny dust pan and a little tiny mop and I'd pull out the vacuum and they'd be like, they'd want a vacuum. So I'd make it the small, the mini, it was a Dyson where you could like detach the long thing and put the little short one on and they'd run around on the floor and vacuum. And I'm like, this is great. Like, and they loved it. They would do lawn. They wanted to do laundry. Like they want to do the things we're doing. And, and it's also teaching them

Papa Rick (01:03:43.288)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:03:52.745)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:03:53.404)
Hmm

Jennie (01:04:08.298)
what goes into having a house and a household. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:04:11.384)
useful skills, yeah, life skills.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:04:12.681)
like the modern day Mary Poppins.

Papa Rick (01:04:15.884)
There you go, just a spoonful of sugar.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:04:18.355)
Spit off!

Jennie (01:04:20.724)
Right? But it was, it was life changing. And then nap time, man, I got a break. I got to eat my lunch in silence. I got to read a book. I got to watch a TV show. I got, you know, I got to just stare into the space silently, like no one asking me for anything. And...

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:04:27.593)
Love you.

Papa Rick (01:04:33.511)
Hahaha!

Let your cortisol levels fall back to normal. Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:04:38.353)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (01:04:39.338)
Yeah, I got to regulate myself for the second half of the day. Sometimes I would take a nap. And that particular family, there was one particular family who, they were very adamant. Make sure you take a break. Make sure, like whatever. And as long as the baby monitor's on, take a nap. We don't care. And so yeah, just living life with our kids versus having this separation between adult life and child life.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:04:42.83)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:04:56.53)
Yeah!

Papa Rick (01:04:57.944)
They had burned out nannies before. You weren't the first nanny.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:04:59.733)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (01:05:09.398)
Like we all live in the same household, we all need the same things. Like bringing our children into the daily activities is so important, it's so important.

Papa Rick (01:05:22.24)
It's amazing how often you can look at people and look at them as children. We were talking a little bit ago about chronological age and that kind of thing. And it's like, okay, I just realized I'm dealing with a 13-year-old girl, not a 50-year-old girl. And how much that helps. Those life skills that a lot of us didn't get.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:05:34.314)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jennie (01:05:34.941)
Right.

Papa Rick (01:05:52.632)
The earlier, boy, say it again, the earlier you can give that stuff to your kids. It is possible to give it to your kids earlier, but you got to figure it out yourself a little bit if, and work on you work on, and then work on your kids. And it should all go relatively smoothly barring avalanches and catastrophic things coming at us from the side.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:06:00.978)
Yep.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:06:09.018)
Absolutely.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:06:12.849)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:06:17.313)
Hmm. This is great stuff.

Jennie (01:06:22.486)
Yeah. Maisha, is there any topic that we haven't hit on? I mean, there's, I always get towards like the hour mark and I'm like, there's so many things we didn't touch on. Is there anything specifically we haven't touched on that you want to speak to?

Papa Rick (01:06:28.002)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:06:40.601)
I think that we have had such a robust conversation. We have covered, you know, we have covered from the window to the wall. I'm sorry. This is so much fun. I couldn't help it.

Papa Rick (01:06:49.56)
pinball.

Jennie (01:06:49.87)
To the wall.

Papa Rick (01:06:55.372)
What is that from?

Jennie (01:06:57.852)
Oh, we found something the boomer doesn't know! Yes!

Papa Rick (01:07:01.617)
Yeah, it's never hurt. That's at least two things I've led on that I don't know. That's not just two. Windows to the wall. Well, I'm going to Google it. If it's on Google, I'll know soon enough. Windows to the wall. It's a song.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:07:08.487)
You know, I don't think you want to know this one though.

Jennie (01:07:11.082)
You don't. It's a...

Jennie (01:07:16.326)
You'll find it. It's a, it's a, it's a song that you, yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:07:20.654)
It's kind of a rock song.

Jennie (01:07:23.954)
Yes, it's Taylor Swift's song. Yeah. God.

Papa Rick (01:07:25.996)
Hannah Montana. Isn't everything a Taylor Swift song now? She writes about so many things. Win.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:07:30.873)
Yeah, we have covered a ton of stuff and I mean, it's just been an amazing conversation and so, so fun. And of course, yeah, we could, we probably could talk for a whole other hour, but no, I think that this is a fantastic episode. Episode two, that would be so fun. I would love it. You guys are awesome.

Jennie (01:07:34.187)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:07:43.168)
I know.

Papa Rick (01:07:44.16)
Episode 2. Part 2. Part 2. We'll have to have you back.

Jennie (01:07:47.604)
Okay.

Papa Rick (01:07:51.348)
It may be a couple of years at the rate Jenny's people are scheduling guests. We'll have to do some jockeys.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:07:57.626)
I know I better I better get rescheduled like tomorrow so that I can be on by the end of the year.

Jennie (01:07:58.382)
Right.

Right? Send my calendar link.

Papa Rick (01:08:01.44)
Yeah, yeah, get in the queue, get in the queue, yeah.

Jennie (01:08:06.774)
where we're gonna have to start doing two episodes a week. I've seen some podcasts that are like so popular that they're starting to do two episodes a week. And I'm like, that would be a dream. If I could, you were talking earlier, I think before we hit record about podcasting being one of your favorite things where you just get to go talk to really cool people about the things that you're passionate about. And I mean, that's why I started doing this is like I, and ultimately,

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:08:15.294)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:08:29.176)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:08:36.842)
Like if I can make a living podcasting, oh my gosh, like getting the word out there, spreading the word, like talking about what I'm passionate about, teaching, talking to people that are so cool and bring so many, so many more perspectives to the conversation. Like, like that would just be a dream come true.

Papa Rick (01:08:59.412)
Yeah. And passing it on, the idea of passing it on to parents and passing it on to kids who are listening to people talking about parenting going, oh, and, or this is, you know, the, it's just, it's just a pursuit in making the world a little bit better place. You know, spend some of your time improving the world or the world is never going to improve folks, you know, if not us, who, if not now, when, and all that good stuff, you know? So.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:08:59.646)
Thanks.

Jennie (01:09:07.946)
Right, the impact.

Jennie (01:09:25.566)
Mm-mm.

Papa Rick (01:09:27.956)
Yeah, this is good stuff.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:09:29.909)
Can you imagine, this is just the last thing I'll say, that I thought about this as we're talking, can you imagine your child, my child, grown people with children of their own listening to this podcast? That's the kind of legacy that we'll leave. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:09:45.82)
It's creepy. When I think of my kids listening to this, you know, and their, and their kids, yeah, it's kind of like, Oh my God, it's out there. You know?

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:09:55.466)
and no kids in the past. Right? I'm like, why? When I think about my podcast, when I think about being on other people's podcasts and the legacy, because this is evergreen conversation. And it's conversations that are timeless and eternal. It's very cool.

Jennie (01:10:04.684)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:10:05.528)
That's right. This is forever. Yeah. Wow. I'm gonna have to go back and edit all their podcasts, make sure I didn't say anything I don't want out there forever.

Jennie (01:10:08.874)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:10:16.149)
We can just leave it on that.

Jennie (01:10:18.922)
I was talking to one of my friends who she and I have a phone call three times a week. We're both entrepreneurs and we kind of like check in with each other and keep each other accountable and stuff. And in our last conversation, we were talking about some of the stuff that our parents do or don't do or don't understand.

we're becoming parents, how things have changed, how birth culture has changed, how all these different things. And I said to her, I was like, do you ever think about our kids in 20 or 30 years and this dumb shit we're gonna say to them to try to give them advice in a culture that we no longer understand? Like, because things change so rapidly, especially now.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:11:07.369)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:11:07.596)
Yeah, it's a new world, baby.

Jennie (01:11:12.61)
things change so, so quickly. And with social media and the access to information, the level of learning and the spread of information is so fast. So I do, I think, and I haven't taken a moment to think about what I'm doing now being watched by my children. And that is such a profound thought that actually gives like,

Papa Rick (01:11:20.237)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:11:34.636)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (01:11:44.282)
It's motivating. It's, it's feels like it all of a sudden just became even more important.

Papa Rick (01:11:52.064)
Well, and I, when I was sitting around talking with your friends after your wedding,

I was so impressed by how much information, like you say, there's so much more information that you can go dig up. You don't have to go to the card catalog at the library and into the reader's guide to periodical literature and find a reference. You know, you just type in a keyword and it's the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Encyclopedia available.

Jennie (01:12:24.031)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:12:28.3)
The things we're learning here, that's great. That's knowledge, you can read about it, but there's head knowledge and there's heart knowledge, right, there's emotional stuff. And so what it's making clear to me is that what we are transferring to our kids, whether it's via a podcast in 30 years, when your babies are growing up or not, is keeping it real, is, you know, like, here's an idea and whatnot, but telling our stories.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:12:52.693)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:12:58.54)
to help make things real to people. You know, that's what grandma and grandpa have now because grandma and grandpa can't keep up with the new culture. We're too busy rubbing liniment on our aches and pains and stuff. Going to the doctor's appointment, you know?

Jennie (01:13:00.301)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:13:07.477)
Yes.

Jennie (01:13:07.959)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:13:10.805)
I'm not the man of it. Yes. You gave me chills. There you gave me chills.

Jennie (01:13:13.668)
Right.

Papa Rick (01:13:19.18)
That's a, that's a, that's a, that's an excellent thought.

Humbling thought.

Jennie (01:13:25.662)
Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. My Isha your contribution to the podcast is priceless and, and I think a lot of, of parents are going to reap a lot of benefits from this conversation. Um, tell people where they can find you. I'm interested in your NLP training. So tell everybody what they can find you.

Papa Rick (01:13:29.953)
Yes.

Papa Rick (01:13:35.189)
inestimable.

Papa Rick (01:13:50.772)
Me too. Well sign us up for that. How much does that cost? We'll get in the loop on that too.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:13:55.797)
So, yes, so the website is mind That's mind And there you will find all of my information about the training. You'll also find a little bit of information about the communication that transforms course. And even on the front page, you can download a little taster. And then of course, if you're

Jennie (01:13:56.062)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:14:09.252)
Got it.

Papa Rick (01:14:14.686)
beings.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:14:23.285)
a parent who's in an organization and you're like, we want her to come speak to our people. There you can reach out to me that way as well. I also am on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn. That's probably my favorite platform because of the work that I do with organizations. I am on Facebook and I am on Instagram. It's all backslash Dr. Maisha.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:14:52.469)
on YouTube, on Instagram, on Facebook, and I am on TikTok. I am. I am on TikTok. Yes. So I do some stuff on TikTok, but it's all backslash Dr. Maisha. And then finally, if you want to learn more, hear more about the kind of work that I do, you can listen to my podcast, which is called The Black Mind Garden. Yeah, and you can find that on

Jennie (01:14:59.138)
GURL! What?!

Papa Rick (01:15:02.148)
Are you shuffle dancing or are you... ..

Jennie (01:15:20.107)
Yes.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:15:21.141)
Any of your favorite podcast platforms. It's called the Black Mind Garden. And it's just, you know, we have conversation about communication, about mindset, about all of the things of life and how our thoughts play into that. Our beliefs and our thoughts play into those things.

Papa Rick (01:15:24.989)
standard.

Jennie (01:15:39.85)
Yes, beautiful. And we will link every single one of those links in the show notes. So if you're listening right now, you can just scroll down, click the link and find you anywhere and everywhere. Awesome.

Papa Rick (01:15:55.576)
We need like a page, we need to put a page on your web page. So it'll go into like a Google index of all this stuff that links not only to our guests stuff, but back to these videos. We're getting a little bit of a catalog of these videos. And it's like, oh, I remember we talked about this, but it's gonna take me an hour to go back and figure out where it was. And so we can start doing the keywords. So when the kids are out there,

Jennie (01:16:24.194)
So AI does that for me. And actually on Riverside, if you go to any of our episodes on YouTube, Dad, there's a chapters list. And it has minute markers of the topics that we cover. So you can just search it and click it.

Papa Rick (01:16:26.417)
AI does it.

I'll test that.

Papa Rick (01:16:41.896)
Okay. All right. I knew it was a good idea. I didn't know someone had already done it yet. I'm a, I'm a software guy. Damn it. Somebody already did that.

Jennie (01:16:49.034)
It's been done!

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:16:49.237)
Yes.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:16:55.157)
Yes!

Papa Rick (01:16:56.36)
I'm going to test it. In a week I'm going to Google the word velociraptor and I want to see a link to this. I want every word out of my mouth.

Jennie (01:17:02.09)
You would probably have to do like velociraptor parenting or like parenting velociraptor.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:17:07.893)
Blossom Raptor parenting.

Papa Rick (01:17:08.667)
Okay. I'm going to test it. If not, I'll write some better software.

Jennie (01:17:10.892)
Yeah.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:17:13.013)
Do it!

Jennie (01:17:13.646)
There you go. Look out chat GPT. He's coming for you.

Papa Rick (01:17:18.519)
Look out, look out! Oh God, you weeb, yeah. Heads down, man, that stuff, it's the Terminators coming, man. Be nice to the, be nice to all these inanimate objects because they're going to remember it in ten years.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:17:18.741)
No, right? I know.

Jennie (01:17:23.18)
No, man.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:17:25.365)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:17:28.326)
Alright.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:17:32.917)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:17:35.518)
On that note, we will see everybody next week. Happy parenting and good luck out there.

Maiysha Clairborne MD (01:17:41.877)
Thank you so much for having me.

Papa Rick (01:17:42.392)
Great to meet you, Maisha.

Jennie (01:17:44.29)
Thank you.