The Relational Parenting Podcast

Jennie (00:00.222)
So my dad is not gonna join us today, which I kind of just found out like half an hour ago. He, this morning he texted me and he's in Illinois and they had really bad storms last night. And so their power is out, their wifi is gone. They're like, they're okay, they're fine. They have a generator.

Caitlin Morris (00:04.917)
Oh, okay.

Caitlin Morris (00:18.931)
Oh, yeah.

Caitlin Morris (00:22.75)
Oh dang it. Are they okay though?

Jennie (00:29.382)
So they've got some power, but they don't have any wifi and the cell towers are all down. So it's like, I was like.

Caitlin Morris (00:37.794)
No. Do you, you all have been super accommodating for me. Do you wanna do it just you and me, or do you wanna wait and reschedule till he can do it? With us.

Jennie (00:49.466)
I think that we should just go ahead. I thought about that and normally I would reschedule, but I feel like it's taken for both of us. I've had to move it, you've had to move it. Like, I'm just, I don't know, I'm just feeling like I want to do it. And I also don't have anywhere else in my weekend. I made a bunch of commitments for the weekend. I don't really have anywhere else.

to move it. So it's at this point, it's kind of the choice between just you and I or no podcast next week. And I took like three weeks off. So I know. And I'm like, no, I want to do I want to do it. So if you're okay with that, then okay.

Caitlin Morris (01:27.786)
Yeah, we don't want that. Yeah.

Yeah. All right.

I'm more than okay. Whatever feels right and works for you. It's great. Yeah.

Jennie (01:42.938)
Great. So then yeah, it'll just be us and I'm looking at all of my little status things on the side here. Everything looks good. The only other thing I try to remember to tell people, so yes, I'm going to, I have our notes from our call and I'm just going to start by like asking you about yourself and tell me more about what you do, et cetera.

Caitlin Morris (01:54.017)
Okay.

Jennie (02:08.826)
I do have a couple of things like highlighted on my page that I want to like, that I'll ask about or bring up. And then at the end, I will, we'll like sign off, we'll say goodbye or whatever and I'll hit the stop record button. And then this has only happened once, but it was, I was like, oh no, I didn't warn her. But I had someone leave, like they hung up, which is, it's totally fine.

Um, but usually I just hit stop record and then we kind of have like a, like a come down before we like say our goodbyes. Um, we're just saying goodbye to the audience and then I'll hit stop record. Um, but there's, yeah, there's usually like, you know, like a ha debrief afterwards. Um, so yeah. Do you have any questions?

Caitlin Morris (02:46.055)
Okay.

Caitlin Morris (02:56.75)
Okay, cool.

Caitlin Morris (03:00.366)
That sounds great. No, thank you.

Jennie (03:05.638)
Also, how is your son? How is his head?

Caitlin Morris (03:09.058)
Thank you. He is healing. That was definitely my first experience with something like that. And we're... yes, yeah. And there was just blood everywhere, which I'm not like, I'm not a, you know, squeamish person, but he was so upset and just my heart was, you know, there for him. And anyways.

Jennie (03:17.251)
Ugh, did your heart just drop into your stomach?

Jennie (03:26.718)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Caitlin Morris (03:36.894)
I also feel terrible because we had the, we had a, you know, six hour car ride back from Durango that day and he was sore. You could tell like his, the way he was moving, his neck was kind of stiff. And we ended up being in the car for eight hours because we hit traffic, like crazy traffic. And so he was just in the car for longer than he needed to be. But we, bleeding stopped and you know, all of that stuff, we took him to the doctor to get checked out and make sure that nothing else was like.

Jennie (03:54.098)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (04:06.058)
super broken or anything like that. So we're, yeah, thank you for asking. We're doing okay. And thanks again for your flexibility. I'm sorry that your dad can't be with us this time, but it's gonna be great. Yeah.

Jennie (04:18.414)
Yeah, that's gonna be good. I've been really excited to connect with you again and to get you on here. Cause I don't know, our little date was so much fun. And I'm just like, I wanna talk to Caitlin. Yes. I was actually down, I was in Golden today. Just by accident, I ended up my...

Caitlin Morris (04:29.606)
I know, I was thinking about that this morning. Yes, we'll have to do another date soon. A little coffee date, yeah, yeah.

Caitlin Morris (04:40.622)
Oh. Yeah.

Jennie (04:45.346)
One of my old nanny families who moved to the East Coast came back to Colorado for a family wedding and texted me earlier this week to be like, hey, any chance you're available to watch Isaac for a couple of hours. I just need to get some work done before I'm truly on vacation. And I was like, yeah. And he works in Golden. So I drove all the way out there and all the way back today. But yeah.

Caitlin Morris (05:09.42)
I hope.

Caitlin Morris (05:14.326)
Well, I love that they still like, you keep in contact like that and they know that they can call on you and trust you.

Jennie (05:21.494)
It was so cool because it was three years ago and they were infants. And so they don't remember me. And so Isaac is there, it was twins. And he brought one and then mom was coming later with the other one. And so they don't remember me. And now they're like, they're three and a half and they're like humans. And it's just like so surreal to see them as like.

Caitlin Morris (05:29.406)
Oh.

Caitlin Morris (05:35.877)
Okay, yeah.

Caitlin Morris (05:45.814)
Yeah.

Jennie (05:50.138)
like people and I'm like, oh my god. And like you can see in their face and all the things. It's very weird. But it was good. Made me feel good that they reached out.

Caitlin Morris (05:50.384)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (06:01.444)
Awesome.

Yeah, that's really cool.

Jennie (06:05.806)
Yeah, okay, I have my phone on do not disturb and

Caitlin Morris (06:11.094)
Oh yeah, I was gonna actually just turn mine off because as much as I think I understand, do not disturb, somehow it always rings through. So there we go.

Jennie (06:21.603)
Oh.

Caitlin Morris (06:25.078)
I'm pretty tech savvy until I'm not.

Jennie (06:25.438)
Okay.

Dude, every time we get on here, whether it's just him or I or a guest, there's always something. There's always something technical to figure out. And it's like, we don't change anything. Like we have our little stations, nothing changes. And yet there's always something like.

Caitlin Morris (06:39.617)
Yeah.

Jennie (06:51.194)
Whatever. But, okay, awesome. I am gonna try to bring us in because I have so many things I wanna ask you about, but it's all like personal like stuff. So we'll do that at the end. We'll get this recorded. Yeah, so tell me, retell me and share with the audience, please.

Caitlin Morris (07:06.25)
Okay, let's get to it. Let's do it. Okay.

Jennie (07:21.13)
Um, well, let's see, we're going to say, welcome back everybody to the relational parenting podcast. Um, this week, my friend, Caitlin Morris is with us. She lives here in Colorado and, um, I also met her through one of the business groups that we're both a part of. Um, and we won't, my dad won't be here today. Just want to give everybody a heads up. He there.

Caitlin Morris (07:44.491)
Yeah.

Jennie (07:49.902)
really big storms in Illinois last night. And so his power is out, his cell towers are down and his wifi is gone. And yeah, so he's fine. They're fine, but he is unable to join us today. So it'll just be Caitlin and I welcome Caitlin.

Caitlin Morris (08:12.842)
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited.

Jennie (08:15.09)
Yeah. Yeah, me too. So, Caitlin, you are a wellness coach for moms and entrepreneurs. Is that correct? Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (08:22.546)
I am. Yeah. Yes. You know, I just recently have come into the term nurturers, because I feel like there's a lot of really beautiful parallels between motherhood and entrepreneurship, and just the way that we take care of others, you know, in our life and ourselves. So yes, yeah.

Jennie (08:31.991)
Mmm.

Jennie (08:44.047)
Yeah.

Jennie (08:50.374)
So you, so tell me, just tell me all about how you came to be a coach in this space, in whatever way that you want to tell, tell us your story. How did you get here?

Caitlin Morris (08:58.485)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (09:05.08)
Yeah, how did I get here? I'll try to keep it as a TLDR, but that we'll see what I could do. Many lifetimes ago, I actually went to school for film, and I produced commercials, I busted my butt in a post house and worked my way up the ladder pretty quickly and burned out at the ripe old age of 28.

Jennie (09:09.473)
Hmm.

Caitlin Morris (09:28.142)
And then in my next lifetime, kind of at the end of that burnout, I had found group fitness and teaching and the studio that I found. It was the first time in place that I had been in such a warm, welcoming environment where people were accepted, you know, for who they were and what they looked like. And it wasn't about like the pounds that you had to lose or anything like that. It was what you could gain, you know, the strength and the power, the...

Jennie (09:53.511)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (09:58.326)
the resilience from putting yourself in uncomfortable situations, right? So I started working for that company actually, like working my way up the ladder there, started working part-time for them and then started working for their corporate headquarters and working and supporting the franchises. And so through all of that, I went on my own health journey trying to feel my best.

Jennie (10:02.843)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (10:26.894)
and went down lots of different rabbit holes. I found coaching, I found this guy in the functional health space that I really dig, Chris Kresser, and sort of following him and digesting all of his information, and really just loved his kind of even-guilt approach to anything, you know, that's like, don't eat this, eat that. And he would make sure to do the studies and the research of like, okay, here's the information.

Jennie (10:50.235)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (10:56.466)
Anyways, really started getting into the functional health world. Through the work that I was doing with the group fitness company that I was working with fell kind of into mentoring and leadership and coaching. It, you know, I didn't call it that I was teaching other instructors how to be instructors, and then I started working, teaching trainers how to train instructors. And so it really has just fell in reflection, like this really beautiful.

like coming together of all of my passions over the last few years. I got laid off in August of 2020, June actually. A memory just popped up on my phone because of the pandemic and that was like my, you know, my jumping off point. It was like, well, I've been thinking about, you know, starting a business for a really long time. I had also through the fitness work gotten my personal training certification. And so I launched my business as a personal trainer and then

Jennie (11:37.095)
No.

Caitlin Morris (11:56.09)
started looking at Chris Kresser's health coaching program that he had announced. And then a friend said, hey, I think you'd be a really good life and leadership coach. And so through all of that, I actually ended up enrolling in both programs at the same time, which I don't necessarily recommend, but had a lot of support. And that was kind of me professionally. But at the same time, I've also had three babies in the last six years and a miscarriage. And, you know, just through all of that, I've also lost.

my father-in-law and my brother. And it's just been this incredible journey of learning to support myself and what growing my business in a sustainable way looks like. And really, I guess, again, just like this beautiful combination for me of becoming a mother, stepping into these roles, and really just kind of following my passions, that I have come here. And I love working with women and nurturers who...

know how to take care of everyone in their life because they're really good at it. And it also means that they come maybe last. I've experienced that in lots of different ways. So that's, I don't know, tried to keep it long story short, but those are the pieces that just came to me. That's how I got here.

Jennie (13:14.418)
Yeah. And you, when you and I talked before this, you, you had mentioned kind of getting your start in wellness with functional health, functional health practitioners, which for my understanding is the way that that's different than traditional Western medicine is that

Caitlin Morris (13:29.709)
Yes.

Jennie (13:44.458)
functional health doctors look at the root cause of things. So in Western medicine, it's what's the symptom, here's a pill or a lifestyle change, it's getting better, or a lifestyle change that will help that symptom. But functional medicine has always focused on what is the root cause of these symptoms, of this symptom or these symptoms, and what do we need to change usually dietarily or exercise or...

Caitlin Morris (13:49.25)
Hmm.

Caitlin Morris (14:06.124)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (14:13.754)
Um, a lot of it is diet, um, or supplementally, um, in order for these symptoms to subside in order for you to, to get your health back. Is that accurate? Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (14:16.661)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (14:24.614)
Yeah, yes, yeah, absolutely. It's a really holistic view of the whole person. And listen, I'm not here to bash Western medicine because if, you know, I or a family member, God forbid, has a heart attack, like I want to make sure that there's, you know, a really great doctor who's there to take care of them, right? So by no means am I bashing Western medicine. However,

Jennie (14:43.069)
Yeah.

Jennie (14:49.53)
Oh, it's a very important piece of the puzzle. Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (14:52.202)
Yeah, it absolutely is. It all works together. Yeah, functional medicine, they do a really incredible job of, like you said, looking at the root, looking at the whole person, right? If there is gut issues that someone is experiencing, it could be because they're eating foods that are really inflammatory to them. It could also be because of the stress that they have in their life that actually does create inflammation in the body.

And so, you know, it's not just looking at that one piece that's wrong, quote, you know, the stomach, you have problems with your stomach and only treating that piece. It's like, let's look at the entire person. They're, you know, every day what happens to them from the time that they wake up to the time that they go to bed. How are they nourishing themselves, but how are they taking care of themselves, you know, all of those pieces. And then, you know, once you have that, being able to create a plan.

that is supportive and sustainable for that person to then go on and make change in their life.

Jennie (15:57.09)
Yeah. And I feel like from our conversations that maybe is how you approach your coaching as well, minus maybe the medicine part, right? Because you're not a doctor, but go ahead. Go ahead.

Caitlin Morris (16:10.854)
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. It's for me. So some people in conversation look at me and they're like, you're a functional health coach, and you're a life coach? Like, how do those things actually go together? But really, the foundation that I found for anyone to be able to make any kind of change in their life is that well being. And if that is not there, then

you know, that's the first place to look. And I think there's a lot of, I don't know, misconception is not quite the word that I'm looking for right now, but this idea in our culture that it's, you know, just a mindset shift or you just have to work out harder or longer, right? And for a lot of people that can absolutely be true. But again, if we're not looking at the whole person and what's going on in their life, maybe the mindset piece is not actually it. You know, maybe it's...

Jennie (16:56.03)
Hmm.

Caitlin Morris (17:08.798)
something else. And everybody knows that we should work out and sleep eight hours a day, right? Like it's not the knowing piece. It's understanding and accepting who you are and what works for you, what you like, what you don't like. That I think for me is the really fun piece of what I get to do. Like helping somebody tap into their intuition and listen to what feels good for them because there's a lot of messages.

Jennie (17:10.599)
Yeah.

Jennie (17:22.065)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (17:37.994)
outside of that, you know? And so it's really fun to help people like lean into their intuition, to trust their own gut and be like, wait a second, actually, like this is what's helping me feel really good and really alive right now, as opposed to something else. So it's, it's absolutely the foundation for me that I really, I really enjoy.

Jennie (17:45.342)
Mm.

Jennie (17:59.923)
I love that and I love that especially for women because there's a lot of...

Caitlin Morris (18:04.494)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (18:09.37)
And I don't know why, maybe I haven't dug deep enough on the internet, but a lot of the functional health practitioners that I know of that are like big names, well known, and that I like follow on Instagram and whatnot, it's men. And their advice, a lot of it is very male oriented. In my experience, there's a lack

Caitlin Morris (18:26.539)
Mm.

Caitlin Morris (18:34.165)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (18:39.19)
of, and it's getting better, it's getting so much better, but there's a lack of understanding in the physiological differences between men and women's needs. And things like women operate on a 28 day cycle-ish. So women's energetic needs are different every week of the month. Our hormones are different every week of the month.

Caitlin Morris (18:41.534)
Yes. Slowly but surely.

Caitlin Morris (19:02.262)
Yes.

Jennie (19:08.102)
sleep needs are different, our need for play is different. Like our energy, even though everyone has masculine and feminine energy living inside of them, no matter what your biological sex is, the feminine requires different things than the masculine. And physiologically speaking, that's also true. And so sometimes, a lot of times, in my experience with men,

Caitlin Morris (19:12.59)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (19:38.094)
It is that they need to go work out harder or they need to get an extra, they need to have an extra push to, you know, get that energy out, um, that anxiety, that whatever, um, they knew do need to go cold plunge, but, you know, me as a woman in the luteal phase of my cycle, a cold plunge is the devil, even though it might help me with muscle recovery, it will inhibit me in other ways because I have.

Caitlin Morris (19:58.122)
Yes.

Jennie (20:07.066)
a lack of hormones right now where I'm at. So I, maybe the proteins, you know, what is it? The cold plunge forces your muscles to quickly produce more proteins to warm you back up, which speeds up the recovery of your muscles. But my endocrine system is gonna crash because I don't have the hormones to take over and warm my body back up. So anyway, all of that, I don't wanna get into.

Caitlin Morris (20:26.795)
Yes!

Jennie (20:34.21)
I went way too far into the physiology of it, but what I wanted to get to is you looking at the whole person and starting with their wellbeing instead of looking at...

Jennie (20:52.958)
especially when it comes to like parenting. And if you're focused on mothers, you know, what can I do differently with my child? What can I do differently with my husband or my partner? What can I do differently in my work? It's like, first of all, we need to stop and we need to tune into you. We need to dive into your intuition and trusting yourself and heal all of the garbage laying on top of that.

Caitlin Morris (21:08.855)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (21:18.058)
Yes, absolutely. And a lot of it is just like you said, I mean, honestly, I, again, not to throw knives. It's a part of the capitalistic and patriarchal kind of culture that is just like the water that we're swimming in, right? And as a result of that, there's a lot of white, male people in, you know, those positions of power.

Jennie (21:35.954)
Hmm.

Caitlin Morris (21:46.014)
and a lot of the studies that have been done are on white males. And surprise, you know, most of the world is not a white male. And as another example, I was just reading a study this week about intermittent fasting. And intermittent fasting has been, you know, all the rage to help lose weight and have all these benefits. And actually, just like you're saying, for certain women, depending on their hormones, where they're at in their life,

Jennie (21:51.253)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (22:05.15)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (22:14.278)
you know, their lifestyle, their stress, like all of that kind of thing. Intermittent fasting actually could be one of the worst things that they could choose to do to themselves, but there's just not a lot of research out there yet. So you're totally right. It's shifting and it's happening. And I love that. And I'm excited about all of that. And there's still, you know, kind of these ideals around what we should look like and what we should do. And when we do give ourselves that opportunity to pause.

Jennie (22:20.57)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (22:39.977)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (22:43.746)
to take a scan of our body and how we're feeling and what's going on. It really opens up a world of opportunity. And one of the things I love about coaching is that we were taught and I believe the person sitting across from me or in a room with me or in a Zoom meeting with me is whole and creative and resourceful on their own. We already know what we want and what we need.

Jennie (23:09.232)
Mm.

Caitlin Morris (23:12.458)
And it's actually just trying to ignore the rest of the noise to celebrate who we are and what we bring as an individual into the world and what will help nourish us as a person. The ideals definitely work to a point. And then we get to tweak based on what supports you, not what's wrong with you. I see a lot of overlap between.

Jennie (23:12.655)
Yeah.

Jennie (23:16.989)
Yeah.

Jennie (23:38.166)
Yes, that's huge.

Caitlin Morris (23:42.662)
that, you know, with kids and how we want to support our kids and bring them up and the same pieces of that, that same kind of love and acceptance we can give to ourselves as well.

Jennie (23:54.814)
Yeah, yes. That's, I've about three times in the conversation so far, I'm like, and that's how we should be raising our children. And that's how we should be raising our children. Is to, because you said, you said we need to look at what supports you need. Like what is it you're, what needs are of yours are not getting met? Not what in you needs fixed? That's not what coaching is about. That's not what therapy is about. That's not what, like, yes, there might be like,

Caitlin Morris (24:03.442)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (24:15.534)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Jennie (24:22.354)
trauma, things to dig into and uncover and work through. But it's not about, we're in this, we have this fix it culture that we all fall prey to in the interest of being the best we can be and living a happy, contented life. And I fall into that trap still constantly all the time every day. I have to like coach myself out of it or call a friend or talk to my therapist.

Caitlin Morris (24:26.187)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (24:50.293)
Yeah.

Jennie (24:51.354)
You know, but you in the same way that we need to figure out what our needs are, what works for us and how we need to be supported as human beings, that's what we need to be doing for our kids. Each of your children is a different person and has different needs, emotional, mental, physical, like cognitive, like different needs from you.

Caitlin Morris (25:06.647)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (25:17.769)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (25:18.786)
as a parent and as a mother, especially in those first five years. Um, and so if you're not in tune with yourself and you're meeting your own needs or getting your needs net and met in healthy ways, um, how, how are you going to teach your children to do the same thing? How are you going to meet their needs? If it's all right. Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (25:38.73)
thousand percent. Yes. Yeah, and you know, I see the thread too of, you know, the quick fix, and what's wrong with me so I can just do it right or be right. And, you know, kind of Western medicine of here's a bunch of pills to fix the problem. Because for a lot of people, and this is not a judgment in any way, this is like, again, the water that we're swimming in. That's the easier way.

Jennie (25:48.294)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (26:03.166)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (26:06.45)
And that's a lot of what we've been presented as quote, the right way too. Whereas ultimately kind of like down the road, that's not necessarily it, right? Like working with a coach and leaning into what's good about you, which is by the way, all of it, and what feels good for you and what supports you. Like that's some uncomfortable stuff. I joke with my coach every single week. Like...

Jennie (26:22.683)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (26:30.746)
going through this process and working with a coach is annoying and uncomfortable. Because it's not something that we've necessarily been exposed to as much and in the same way. And that's a part of my coaching journey professionally is what I've been going through personally as a mom. Because for me, and if there are books, somebody throw them my way, come into my DMs and tell me. The books that really truly...

Jennie (26:34.215)
Yeah, yeah.

Jennie (26:39.59)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (26:58.306)
help you as a parent, you know, figure out what those pieces are for you, what feels good for you, how you take care of you. Because you know, I'm, I am no expert, but I can tell you I've done a lot of things that I wish I hadn't done with my kids. You know, because I, because my needs weren't being met, right? Because I wasn't taking care of myself. And it's kind of this evolution for me, as I've become a coach and, you know, learn to really lean into strengths. And

you know, put these pieces together for myself as, as how looking at the whole person and taking care of them on that foundational level is so important because I've been in the other, you know, on the other way as a parent too. So it's, yeah, it's a process and I, you know, it means that we also have to be uncomfortable and we have to be okay to get it wrong. But again, it's just like a really beautiful journey. I think that when

Jennie (27:40.742)
Yeah.

Jennie (27:51.436)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (27:56.31)
we're able to go on that journey at any phase of being a parent, then it makes it easier to support our kids in doing that too.

Jennie (28:05.338)
Yeah, the deeper that we dive into discomfort, like it's like the better life gets. Like you're gonna, it's just like a workout. Like you're gonna go be uncomfortable. You're gonna get hot and sweaty and tired and whatever. But then afterwards you're gonna feel amazing. And the same is true in parenting. Like you've got to have the uncomfortable conversation. You've got to stay calm when they're throwing a tantrum instead of.

Caitlin Morris (28:17.912)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (28:25.016)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (28:33.707)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (28:34.826)
unleashing your discomfort in the form of yelling or punishment or exclusion. And like that's uncomfortable and getting coached is uncomfortable. Like you said, like I always warn people, I'm like, you're not going to always like me. Like you like me right now, like while you hire me and I'm a fun person, a fun person to talk to.

Caitlin Morris (28:39.991)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (28:51.894)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (28:55.978)
Yeah. Yes, yeah.

Jennie (29:00.898)
But I'm also here to challenge you. Like that's my job. I'm not going to do it in a rude way. And I'm not going to do it in a judgmental way. And I'm never going to shame you for anything that you do because parenting, I parenting is the most difficult thing that I've ever done in my life. Taking care of children is, it is a smack in the face of every flaw you've ever had or knew about inside of yourself. And it, and it is hard to look in that mirror.

Caitlin Morris (29:03.16)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (29:26.857)
Yes.

Jennie (29:30.21)
Um, but that's part of, that's part of it. That's part of the journey and it's healing if you let it be healing, you know? Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (29:36.286)
Yes, yeah, absolutely. And I didn't read that in a parenting book. Like I need a chapter on that in What to Expect, but it's not there. Yeah.

Jennie (29:46.439)
Right? What to expect when you're expecting. Like let's talk about years one through five. Or I guess what is it? What to expect after? Is there, is that, have they made a version that it's like what to expect after you've given birth? Like.

Caitlin Morris (29:51.416)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (30:00.326)
Yeah, and they should. Well, they have some. It's like what to expect the first year and, you know, some things like that. But again, for me, there's, I have not found one. Maybe, maybe I can write it. You know, the book that's like, hey, there's so many books out there about babies and how to take care of them. And here's how to take care of yourself. And I mean, to be honest with you too, parenting didn't get hard for me. Trust me, parenting is hard the whole time.

Jennie (30:04.866)
Mmm. Okay.

Jennie (30:17.393)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (30:29.906)
And every phase has its own thing. It was easy for me to parent a baby in many ways compared to what it's like to parent my six-year-old now, you know, because she is stepping into her own. And she is, you know, having tantrums and big emotions. And she didn't have those things when she was one, right? Like, it just wasn't the same. And there's...

Jennie (30:32.435)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (30:36.338)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (30:52.366)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (30:56.894)
you know, so many more transitions and school and friends and, you know, like all of these things that it really, it's compounded for me the need for this wellbeing piece as a foundation for me as a parent. Not only having, you know, multiple babies, but as, as those babies are getting older, because like you just said, it's like, it can be a smack in the face of, you know, your own triggers.

Jennie (31:10.523)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (31:24.558)
And if you have, when you have, when you can grasp onto those pieces of that well-being and that foundation, be able to stay calm for them, to support them through what they're going through. That feels like really, really powerful.

Jennie (31:41.326)
Yeah. And when you have multiple children, you're not always, you get to be... So the parent that you were when your six-year-old was born is different than the parent you are now for your youngest. How old is your youngest?

Caitlin Morris (32:01.078)
Yes, absolutely. By the way, we're having some crazy rain right here, and I hope that it's not too bad. Can you hear it?

Jennie (32:05.37)
You have it. OK.

Jennie (32:09.76)
Just barely. It's okay.

Caitlin Morris (32:11.314)
Okay, all right, good. I just wanna make sure, sorry, you can cut that piece out. Yeah. It usually goes away pretty quickly, but. And yes, you're so right. The parent that I was six years ago is absolutely a different version in many ways, layers, and forms. My youngest is 16 months now. And you know what I've learned about myself in the process, I know that I'm...

Jennie (32:13.662)
It'll just be our soundtrack. Ha ha ha.

Caitlin Morris (32:41.562)
different parent to him. I know for all three of them I am more patient and more calm. And that's not to say that I am perfect by any means. It just means for me, you know, the grace I can bring into the situation for myself, like recognizing and knowing as I've evolved, they've evolved. And there was nothing wrong with the way that I was parenting my daughter before. It's just that now I've learned, you know, something different.

Jennie (32:49.551)
Yeah.

Jennie (33:02.843)
Mm.

Caitlin Morris (33:11.71)
And so the grace and the self-love and like compassion that comes into that for me, that I've had to work really hard on by the way, with my therapist and my coach, you know, is not shaming who I was, instead, you know, celebrating who I was, what I was doing and being able to bring, you know, those pieces that feel really good still to me from her into me right now.

Jennie (33:19.511)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (33:25.32)
Yeah.

Jennie (33:38.823)
I love that. I love especially because doing the work is hard. Doing the work is, you know, looking at the ugly pieces, the not so perfect pieces and integrating that in the moment is hard. But what about five years later, 10 years later, when you look back? Like I still look back at 21, 22, 25 year old Jenny and I'm like, ew. I still

Caitlin Morris (33:55.757)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (34:05.102)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Jennie (34:06.17)
I still judge it. I still, and I still, and I, and that's like, it's a constant practice. And I, there's actually a really cool meditation that I will link in the show notes, but it's, it was on Oprah in like the nineties, apparently. And you, the visual is that you go to your childhood home, the first home you ever lived in, and

you as an adult go back and visit the child you were in that home. Um, and which is generally somewhere between zero and five years old. And it was, I mean, I just cried and I just hugged that little girl and it gave me empathy for 20 year old Jenny. It gave me empathy and grace and love and understanding because I was still just a kid. I was still just a dumb ass, you know,

Caitlin Morris (34:56.023)
Yeah.

Jennie (35:03.742)
trying to figure it out and I was doing my best. I was always doing my best at no point in my life. Do I ever have a memory where I wasn't striving and struggling and doing what I thought was the right thing? And that's true for parents. Most parents are trying their best and doing what they know according to their life experience to be what's best for their kids.

Caitlin Morris (35:13.566)
Absolutely.

Caitlin Morris (35:18.175)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Caitlin Morris (35:31.274)
Absolutely. Yeah. And that can get uncomfortable too when you do learn, you know, something different or new, right? Or can be for me, you know, can ruffle my parents feathers, right? Of like, that's not how we raised you. And it's like, I know that. And this is the choice that, you know, I'm making, right? This is what feels right for me. And early on, I'll be honest, you know, becoming a parent, there were pieces of me that judged my parents.

Jennie (35:39.003)
Yeah.

Jennie (35:45.583)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (36:01.326)
And again, as a part of this coaching journey for me, my own wellbeing, stepping into parenthood in all of the ways is like, wow, actually, as I've been able to give myself grace in the process, I can also look and give them more grace and recognize and realize that they were also just doing the best that they could, right? And something else you said resonated with me in terms of looking...

Jennie (36:22.546)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (36:28.194)
looking at Jenny as a 22 year old and thinking that she's a dumb ass, like we all do, right? And like we were all there in some way, shape or form. We, I think I can, I can say. And so community is a really big piece of my framework and working with my clients too, because that, you know, stepping outside of your silo, right? Like your single family home, your apartment, wherever you're living, it can feel really isolating sometimes.

Jennie (36:34.321)
Yeah.

Jennie (36:40.231)
Yeah.

Jennie (36:44.179)
Hmm.

Jennie (36:52.188)
Yeah.

Yes.

Caitlin Morris (36:56.758)
when you are having those struggles, whether it be taking care of you, blowing up at your kids, whatever it is. And the second that we have the vulnerability to say, this happened to me, there's eight other people that can also be there to say, me too, you know? Like it's so easy to get into these kind of pockets of shame, I think, that there is something wrong or we're bad or, you know, with our kids, there's something wrong with them, they're bad. But when we have the vulnerability...

Jennie (37:09.71)
Yeah. Yes.

Caitlin Morris (37:26.714)
and compassion for ourselves to say like, hey, I'm going through this thing. Somebody else has also gone through it, you know? And that power of normalizing and not feeling so isolating, I think is a really beautiful olive branch that we can also give ourselves in all of this too, which then again allows us to give that to our child. Yeah.

Jennie (37:49.202)
Yes, I think that's a pillar that we share, is trying to create community, trying to create the village that everybody talks about it, taking to raise a child. It's like, what village?

Caitlin Morris (37:55.03)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (38:04.042)
Yeah, where is that freaking village? Can somebody build it? Yeah.

Jennie (38:06.566)
Like you have one, right? Like there is no village anymore. We all live in our own silo. Like you said, we live in our own one to five bedroom households in little communities and nobody talks to each other. You know, I've been shocked. I live in an amazing neighborhood and it's a small town and I just, I got here thinking, oh, everybody's gonna know each other.

I'm going to be talking to all the neighbors. And now that I've been here for a little over a year, I know some of my neighbors really well, and we talk and help each other out and all the things, but there is a shocking number of people in my cul-de-sac alone that I have never seen, never talked to, and who don't know each other at all. And we live literally, like we can see into each other's windows.

Caitlin Morris (38:58.387)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (39:04.842)
Right.

Jennie (39:06.29)
So yeah, so building community, community is a serious issue in the way that our society has been set up. And it's also one of the biggest causes of the shame cycle that we all get stuck in because we don't have anyone to like that we're just constantly seeing everyone's struggling. We don't, no one sees it. We just see each other's good sides and...

Caitlin Morris (39:21.998)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jennie (39:35.278)
Shoot, I just lost the other thing, community. Nobody talks to each other anymore. Oh no, it flew away. Connection, like we need connection as human beings. It's the number one determining factor of life satisfaction is the quality of your relationships.

And if you are not talking face to face with people regularly, daily, constant interactions, like living like a, like kind of tribally, whether that's at your workplace or whatever, especially like new moms, not getting out of the house because it's fucking hard to get out of the house. And who are you going to go see? Where are you going to like, where are you going to go? Um, but mental health, that's the thought that flew away. Our mental health plummeted back in like, what the fifties?

Um, when people, people quit, and especially with the internet, nobody leaves their houses anymore.

Caitlin Morris (40:42.122)
Yeah, well, and, you know, coming through the pandemic too, right? Like, mm-hmm. Yeah. And I, unfortunately, I think, although we know the importance of it, because that was our reality for so long, it's actually harder to come out of some of those bubbles that we had created. Because, you know,

Jennie (40:47.054)
Yeah? Oh, it's just gotten worse.

Jennie (41:03.344)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (41:10.69)
commuting and being out in the office and going to all of those pieces and work functions, all of that went away. And the fitness studio that I was working at before, trying to get their attendance back to where it was before COVID was and is a struggle for a lot of businesses because it's just a different life that we're living. And at the same time, it doesn't mean...

Jennie (41:27.848)
Mm, yeah.

Caitlin Morris (41:37.442)
that the importance of that piece has gone away in any way. Yeah.

Jennie (41:43.438)
I'm like, this is something I'm actively working with right now, because I'm trying to start hosting in-person classes at our local YMCA. And I've known for a long time that was going to be really hard to get parents to come to because of childcare. It's hard to get people to leave their houses anyway. But

Caitlin Morris (41:53.078)
Yeah.

Jennie (42:10.398)
You know, parents need childcare if they're gonna, if both parents are gonna be able to show up for a class like that together, which is the goal. I call it relational parenting. Like you're, the parents are the primary relationship in the household. You both need to be coming and learning these things and on the same page. And so anyway, so I'm doing it with the YMCA because there's kid care and I can, you know.

Caitlin Morris (42:16.885)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (42:36.182)
Yeah.

Jennie (42:38.55)
it's included. So there's, you don't have to pay for childcare. You don't have to hire a babysitter. You don't have to do the whole text role, you know, all the hiring, whatever, trying to see who's available for, you know, an hour. It's also hard to get a babysitter to come by for an hour. It's like, that's a waste of my time. That's, you know, anyway, but that's like, I am, I am so dead set. And I refuse to make

Caitlin Morris (42:56.599)
Right.

Jennie (43:06.574)
everything that I offer online, at least to start because my goal is to create in-person community, in-person connections, is to create a village of people who are close enough to go to this YMCA and take a class, which means they're close enough that you can form like a parent cohort where you take turns watching each other's kids. So these two families drop their kids off with these two families on this Saturday night and they get to go have a date night.

Caitlin Morris (43:14.894)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (43:26.222)
Exactly.

Jennie (43:35.066)
And then the next weekend, these two families drop their kids off and they get to go have their date night, you know, and nobody pays each other. You just swap childcare and you save money. You create bonds and friendships and people you can rely on if something awful were to happen or, you know, someone needs surgery and can't cook or like all the things like how we used to just take care of each other. You know.

Caitlin Morris (43:43.47)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (44:00.234)
Yeah, yeah, we desperately need to bring more of that back. I love that you're doing that. Yeah.

Jennie (44:05.818)
Yeah, it's the first time I've ever, I've talked about it out loud. Um, but I, but yeah, well, community and village is just so, it's just so like at the top of mind for me. Um, it's literally what I like. It's all I'm focused on right now is creating that space, but I want to get back to some of your, some of the things that you and I have talked about because there's, um,

Caitlin Morris (44:10.581)
Yay! Planting with need.

Caitlin Morris (44:20.312)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (44:34.354)
That's what came up for me earlier. The re-parenting of the self, the relationship to self and how that influences, I mean, everything in your life, but your relationship to your spouse, your relationship to your children, your relationship to your friends, to your family. What are some of the, what are some of the like really key,

Caitlin Morris (44:40.728)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (44:51.374)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (45:04.403)
that you see coming up with the people that you coach regularly? What are the things that you're seeing that most people can identify with?

Caitlin Morris (45:14.814)
Yeah, so much of what I see in my clients, they tend to be, you know, high achieving, people pleasing perfectionists, which hi, nice to meet you. And with that, right, it means that we're really hard on ourselves. And when we're really hard on ourselves,

Jennie (45:27.687)
Hmm. Right. Hi. Here we are. Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (45:43.666)
It means that we're also really hard on everyone else around us in different ways. It just, it can show up and that is how it shows up. You know, we have really high expectations for ourselves and so then we want those things in our world. And the re-parenting piece, what I've seen, that important puzzle piece that I wasn't given that I've had to...

like draw and color in myself. Yeah, exactly. Is compassion. And it's that's kind of the cornerstone. Even if it's a flicker for just a moment.

Jennie (46:12.542)
Mm-hmm. Ditto, yes. Yes.

Jennie (46:28.188)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (46:29.682)
it makes the rest of it possible. Because otherwise the shame, the guilt, the judgment of whatever it is, being too much, not being enough, you know, losing your cool with your kids, like if you can't repair that with yourself and understand that you were doing the best that you could in that moment, in that situation, then it's really hard to apply that anywhere else.

And so when we can do that and bring that in, the reparenting can begin in really small steps that again, personally for me have made it possible to know, to feel that I am showing up differently with my kids.

Jennie (47:18.918)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (47:21.367)
I would say in different ways and phases, that's kind of the theme that I see in my clients and working with them.

Jennie (47:31.966)
That's a big one, and I think...

I think that the high achieving perfectionism, people pleaser comes from a parenting generation that used high standards and shame. And there's nothing wrong with high standards. There's nothing wrong with setting a high bar and helping your children reach for it or reach it or exceed it. And the tool for doing that won't

Caitlin Morris (48:01.368)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Jennie (48:05.758)
cause long-term mental health problems and this toxic pushing of ourselves and molding of ourselves to become whatever the world needs us to be instead of being what we already are. That tool is connection, not shame. If you like, go ahead.

Caitlin Morris (48:15.497)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (48:23.543)
Yes.

Yes. Yep.

Yeah, I was, I want to add the, I see the, the wellbeing foundation and that compassion piece, making it possible. I'm going to off the top of my head butcher this quote, but I think it was Victor Frankel who talked about how in between the stimulus and the response, you know, there's that room for the pause, right? And if we

Jennie (48:57.158)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (49:00.67)
If we don't have that foundation of self-compassion and wellness, then it's really hard, excuse me, really easy to just react. And again, no judgment, no shame, nothing wrong with that at all. It's how we were raised and we're here. When we allow for that love in all of the ways, there is that space for pause, which

Jennie (49:13.415)
Yes.

Jennie (49:17.962)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (49:30.174)
is another piece of coaching that's really powerful is curiosity, right? As opposed to yelling at our child to say, what were you thinking? You can pause and say, hey, I've just noticed this thing happened, what's coming up for you? Which, I think I can talk to my three-year-old that way, I don't necessarily, but that does work right now for my six-year-old. And I'm trying to remember there was a situation really recently, but it's not coming to me right now.

Jennie (49:39.642)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (49:47.419)
Yeah.

Jennie (49:54.544)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (50:00.03)
where I, in my brain, I jumped and assumed one thing, but I physically was very proud of myself for being able to give the pause and ask the curious question. And she just misunderstood, you know, we misunderstood each other. And because I was able to do that, it allowed a really beautiful conversation between us that I just, you know, we were able to talk to each other and she could ask more questions.

Jennie (50:14.191)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (50:22.727)
Hmm.

Caitlin Morris (50:29.482)
And I just walked away from the situation being like, whew, like.

Jennie (50:29.598)
Yeah.

Jennie (50:34.927)
Yeah...

I love that. And compassion, I think you started to draw this line and I just want to connect the dots. I said that the tool is connection and you said that the tool is compassion. And if you don't cultivate compassion inside of yourself for yourself, compassion and grace to be human, to make mistakes, to be imperfect, to be who you are.

and meet your own needs, then connecting with your child through compassion, grace, love, humility, pause, all of those things is not, you're not gonna be able to do that. So your relationship to yourself, and I know we've already said this 800 times, relationship to yourself, relationship to your child. Like you've gotta connect, have compassion for, dig deep, uncover.

Caitlin Morris (51:16.45)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (51:22.156)
Right.

Jennie (51:36.914)
bring out that intuition so that, cause intuition doesn't yell, intuition doesn't scream, intuition doesn't push, intuition isn't hard. Intuition is soft, slow, gentle. It is gentle, which we need to get to the word, that word gentle. It is gentle, but it's also firm. It's also confident.

Caitlin Morris (51:43.219)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (51:47.902)
Mm-hmm. Gentle.

Caitlin Morris (52:04.91)
Mm-hmm.

consistent.

Jennie (52:07.526)
like consistent, the intuition, intuition's decision doesn't change from situation to situation. It doesn't go, oh, well this, I have this boundary, but tomorrow that boundary might change. No, like intuition is like, this is a boundary for me and I'm gonna hold that boundary with my child and I'm gonna be loving about it, but I'm also gonna be firm. I'm gonna be immovable.

Caitlin Morris (52:17.517)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (52:26.423)
Yep.

Caitlin Morris (52:37.326)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (52:39.962)
Yeah, yeah, uncovering, digging down into that intuition for yourself and, and leading with the intuition. Um, cause that's something else. That's something else that I always try to say too, is that, you know, I'm not here and you're not here like coaches. It's like coaching is like you do, you're like telling people what to do or telling them they're wrong. They're doing it the wrong way and took over here and do it the right way. Um, and I feel like coaching.

Caitlin Morris (53:00.578)
Right.

Caitlin Morris (53:05.174)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (53:09.842)
we need to redefine the word coach or maybe quit using it, use a different word, but I don't know what a consultant, teammate. Yeah, I am here to be a parenting partner. I'm here to come in and learn your values and learn what your strengths are, what you're good at and what you want to do and what your goals are. And then I'm going to help you.

Caitlin Morris (53:19.03)
Partner, yeah, partner, yeah.

Jennie (53:38.238)
step into the person who does those things by asking the right questions. And I am, I'm going to teach you some child development research. I'm going to teach you some best practices. But I'm there like every child there, there are, I don't know how many, you know, 4 billion kids on the planet. I don't know what the division is between kids and adults. But in every single one of them is different. And there's not going to be one

Caitlin Morris (53:41.323)
Yes.

Jennie (54:07.71)
tactic that works for every single child in every single situation and So your intuition as a parent like you were given this child for a reason you have the skills and gifts necessary to raise this child and We all have layers of childhood trauma and life experiences that we are filtering our Parenting through that are that are toxic and not serving our child

Caitlin Morris (54:12.302)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (54:23.864)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (54:35.6)
Yep.

Yeah, and that's actually another pillar of...

how I work with my clients. And like you're saying, it's not telling them what to do, it's tools and then adapting them to how it works for them. Because in our more masculine dominated society, a lot of us women in particular, or if you're, you know.

cultured that way. The people pleasing piece is real. And what it does after years and years and years of people pleasing is that you get really good at pushing down whatever it is that you want and desire, right? Because it's how you can show up for everyone else and what they need. And so your needs, you get really good at ignoring them. And so tapping into your feminine power and reconnecting to that is what I...

Jennie (55:22.596)
Yep.

Caitlin Morris (55:36.43)
how I talk about it is like trusting your gut and your intuition, honoring your body and your cycles, which allow those pieces to fall into place and to start paying attention to those little whispers of like, okay, I know that this is what I should say to my kid in this situation, but this is actually what feels really good to me right now is really.

really neat, you know, when somebody can feel comfortable and confident in that. I have a lot of clients that I've worked with, you know, as we're completing. You know, I just ask questions about their experience to get feedback and help them reflect, you know, on how they've shifted and grown. And more than one, like I would say half of them at least at some point in the conversation always end up saying like, you know, I was really annoyed at first when we started working together because I just wanted you to tell me what to do.

Jennie (56:31.631)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (56:34.69)
And instead you asked questions, you know, and it wasn't about telling me what to do. It was asking me what I wanted to do. And actually that's been, you know, the more powerful part of this journey for me is realizing that I actually had the answers all along. And you gave me the permission to trust myself and to listen to that. Yeah.

Jennie (56:51.384)
Yes.

Yes. Yeah.

Jennie (57:01.23)
It's like a granting of permission. It's like you are a mirror for her to look into and the mirror reflected the right questions so that she could see herself fully and be like, oh, actually, I want to do this. And it also comes with like proof over time, of like following your intuition and then the result is wonderful. And you're like,

Caitlin Morris (57:08.814)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (57:19.523)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (57:30.094)
Oh, like the end, sometimes intuition, it is a wisp and it almost always is a whisper. Intuition is a whisper. And so you have to really stop and listen. But it's also often, if you, people often wait to rationalize intuition in their mind. Why do I feel this? Why do I want this? Why do I think this is the next step or the next thing?

Caitlin Morris (57:31.103)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (57:38.307)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (57:53.294)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jennie (58:00.002)
Um, instead of just doing it and trusting it. And when you, you know, sometimes you can, you can go, Oh, I have this feeling. Why do I have this feeling? And you can work through it and then do it. But a lot of times you, you get lost in the analyzing of your intuition instead of just trusting it. And then it's like a year later and you still haven't executed based on your gut feeling.

Caitlin Morris (58:00.813)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (58:25.93)
Right. Yeah, yeah, because like you're saying, it's also really easy to jump to the analyzing piece. So it's like, well, here's where I am. That's what I want. But how do I ever even get there? And what's the first step and forget about it? Like it doesn't even, you know, it doesn't matter because it's just not possible. That's where a coach could come in. But yeah. Hello.

Jennie (58:49.53)
Right? Yeah, right, this is just one big commercial, guys. Ha!

Caitlin Morris (58:56.462)
There was something else. Yeah, no. There was something else that I just thought about when you were saying that piece and it flew away. You said that earlier and that's just what happened to me. It'll come back. Yeah.

Jennie (59:13.36)
gentle the word gentle so

Jennie (59:18.966)
the words we've talked on the podcast about gentle parenting. And I've talked to so many people and I'm like, you know, I always start off by being like, you've probably heard of gentle parenting. That's like the big term right now. And it's well intentioned and the philosophies are aligned and wonderful. And I

Caitlin Morris (59:23.563)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (59:48.842)
And I know, and pretty much, and I literally haven't talked to a single person who identifies with that word and the word parenting because parenting is rarely gentle outside of the like baby snuggles and like gentle touches. And you know, there's moments, there are gentle moments, but parenting itself is like a tornado.

Caitlin Morris (59:56.564)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (01:00:15.53)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:00:18.402)
or a hurricane, like maybe there's like these moments in the middle, in the eye of the storm, you know? Parenting, like kids, kids will knock you off your feet. They will unground you, they will, like I spent three hours this morning with a three-year-old and I haven't been actively working with kids.

Caitlin Morris (01:00:23.523)
Yes.

Jennie (01:00:45.766)
for like a little while now, because I've been on the coaching journey. But I still like once a month, once every couple of months, I return and do a babysitting gig, or I take kids for a weekend, nieces and nephews, et cetera. And it's like I get another taste and a reminder of like, oh my God, this is so hard. This is so hard, even for someone who is teaching these things.

Caitlin Morris (01:00:49.164)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:01:05.882)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:01:12.83)
to like stay grounded, to use the tools, to be present and calm and gentle. And also life requires firm and harsh and big and strong. And because to weather a storm, like you cannot be gentle back to the storm. The storm will eat you alive.

Caitlin Morris (01:01:13.07)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (01:01:31.95)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (01:01:41.946)
And that doesn't mean, not gentle doesn't mean mean, shaming, disrespectful, hurtful. You know, it doesn't mean any of those things. The opposite of gentle is firm. The opposite of gentle or the, you know, the compliment to gentle, um, is confident. You know, and kids need that too. Kids need structure and boundaries.

Caitlin Morris (01:01:42.146)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (01:01:50.178)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (01:02:05.582)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jennie (01:02:11.902)
confident leader. Like you would not go into the army or a classroom or whatever. Like if you had a strong teacher at the front of the classroom who called you on your bullshit, you did not fuck with that teacher and you trusted that teacher or that coach, you know, if you were in football or volleyball or whatever. Like you trust strong leaders. Your kid needs a strong leader, but you also loved the coaches and the teachers.

Caitlin Morris (01:02:33.206)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (01:02:40.778)
and whoever else in your life, the leaders in your life who were compassionate and kind to you.

Caitlin Morris (01:02:47.006)
Yeah. That's what I love about your...

Jennie (01:02:48.637)
Right?

Caitlin Morris (01:02:54.306)
brand is the first word that's coming to me. But your, I guess, approach, right, is, because you're right, I don't identify with that word, gentle parenting, that phrase. Because when I first heard about it and started learning about it, in the moments where I was being more firm or when I couldn't keep my cool anymore, there allowed a layer of shame and judgment on myself because I...

Jennie (01:02:58.397)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:03:21.662)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (01:03:24.274)
I didn't do this thing, I wasn't gentle, right? And the relational parenting on the other hand, I just love so much because it says to me, it speaks to the power of the relationship that we all of the different layers and kinds and types of relationships and what can happen in them and how they can be really strong. And it is love and compassion and it's not shame. And it is boundaries.

Jennie (01:03:27.079)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:03:43.975)
Yes.

Jennie (01:03:52.423)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:03:52.494)
And, you know, it is being firm and it is being gentle and, you know, it's allowing this and this gray as opposed to the either or the black and white right or wrong in parenting that really can encompass all of the highs and lows of being a parent and taking care of yourself and taking care of your kids.

Jennie (01:04:06.055)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:04:11.867)
Yes.

Jennie (01:04:16.954)
Yeah, I always, thank you, first of all. Yeah, but that's, I mean, you hit the nail on the head of why I named it that because we learn, we connect through relationships, we have quality of life through relationships and we learn through relationships. And I always ask,

Caitlin Morris (01:04:23.166)
Well, thank you. I told you that before, but I'll say it now that it's official. Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:04:37.326)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jennie (01:04:45.79)
parents who are coupled, who are partnered, you know, inside of your partnership. Like what works? Screaming and yelling and criticizing, shaming your partner, that doesn't work.

Caitlin Morris (01:04:59.468)
Mm-mm. Right.

Jennie (01:05:00.198)
That never works. Then you just fight all the time and you in distance, you disconnect from each other. Yeah, like what works inside of your partnership. Now translate that into a parent child. There has to be mutual respect. There has to be, you have to listen to their experience and validate it. And then they're gonna learn how to listen to your experience too. But you have to do it first. You're the parent.

Caitlin Morris (01:05:06.018)
Yeah, builds a thicker, bigger wedge.

Caitlin Morris (01:05:11.959)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (01:05:26.965)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (01:05:29.694)
They're not going to do it. They're not going to respect you until they've learned respect from you.

Caitlin Morris (01:05:29.9)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:05:35.309)
Yes, totally.

Jennie (01:05:37.49)
And, you know, taking what you would do with another adult in the room and treating your child with the same dignity and respect, you know, in the language of a child, of course, it's not going to be exactly the same.

Caitlin Morris (01:05:50.986)
Yes. Right. Yeah. That, that the birdie came back to me. You said something earlier about the, the mirror, right? Like holding the mirror up. And I know as a parent, and I assume this, um, for all parents, nurturers, caregivers, whoever it is that we love, that we are taking care of, we want the best for them, right? We, we see them.

Jennie (01:05:53.83)
but translate it.

Jennie (01:05:58.79)
Good.

Jennie (01:06:02.822)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:06:20.474)
as whole and creative and resourceful and fun and loving and compassionate. And we want all of the things for them. We want them to take care of each other, to take care of themselves, and we want them to, you know, reach their dreams and live a life that makes them happy. And we also have an opportunity, which I didn't really understand for a long time, to model that first.

Jennie (01:06:39.288)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:06:48.93)
Just like you're saying, the respect piece has to be modeled from the parent first. It's the wellbeing and the compassion and seeing ourselves as whole that makes it so much easier to do that and gift that to everybody else, to our kids.

Jennie (01:07:08.218)
Yeah, and that something just popped up for me while you were saying that is, there's a lot of...

Jennie (01:07:18.354)
Being a parent requires you to not need anything from your children. If you are relying on your children to meet your needs, you will respect me, you will apologize to me, you will not speak to me that way, you will like in demanding these things of your children, you know, at a certain age when they're 17, sure, don't talk to me like that.

Caitlin Morris (01:07:27.143)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (01:07:35.958)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (01:07:48.474)
you know, calling them out on things, but making these demands of our children simply because we don't like their behavior and their behavior is their language and is how they get their needs met. We take it all personally. And hi, baby.

Caitlin Morris (01:07:57.31)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:08:06.45)
Hi, you're up from your nap. How did you sneak in here? Yeah, can you take that to daddy please? Yeah, daddy can come grab you now please. We got a little bit longer here buddy. Can you go find Dada? Can you give that to Dada?

Jennie (01:08:07.378)
Did you... He's like, I found you.

Jennie (01:08:15.486)
Ha ha ha!

Jennie (01:08:20.174)
Oh my goodness.

Jennie (01:08:24.926)
Hehehehe

Caitlin Morris (01:08:35.095)
Dad thought the podcast recording was over. Hi, we're back. Sorry, the last piece that you were saying.

Jennie (01:08:37.783)
Oh, that's okay. We're almost done. Hi.

Jennie (01:08:49.947)
Just what you said really sparked a realization in me is that when we are compassionate with ourselves, when we can accept ourselves, our past, our current selves, have compassion for and choose to connect and learn how to meet our needs or how to get our needs met by our spouse or our friends or our family.

then we quit relying on our children and requiring them to meet a need for us to be respected, to be calm, to have appropriate behaviors in public because you're embarrassing me. Like quit taking your child's behavior personally because it's not about you. They don't know any better.

Caitlin Morris (01:09:18.914)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (01:09:22.583)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (01:09:33.166)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Morris (01:09:40.138)
Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Whatever they do, like you said in public, if they have a tantrum, it's not a reflection of you as a parent.

Jennie (01:09:49.914)
Yeah, which is hard because people are so judgmental of parents in public. They are so mean.

Caitlin Morris (01:09:54.89)
Yes. Yeah. And I do think that's changing and shifting slowly. As we realize and accept children for being. Imperfect humans, just like we are, you know, as we're learning. Yeah, yeah, like where and how exactly this idea that.

Jennie (01:10:10.662)
Yeah. How dare you leave the house with a three-year-old? He might scream. Like...

Caitlin Morris (01:10:21.93)
I mean, very simply, kids should be seen and not heard is like very mind blowing to me. So I feel as somebody who's experienced and had kids, you know, who have had outbursts, you know, I feel this shift. But it's yeah, I just thought of this experience that I had when I was flying with my oldest, she was five weeks old. So I'm a new mom, first flight, like so scared I'm going to be.

Jennie (01:10:28.113)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:10:51.598)
that mom on the plane, right? Whose baby cries the whole time. And I got onto the plane and this woman stopped me and said, how old is it? And I said, she's five weeks. That's what I thought, it's gonna cry the whole time. And I was like, okay, like, oh my God. Yeah, and so I know. And so I kept walking.

Jennie (01:10:54.103)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:11:13.406)
Jesus, the gall on some people.

Caitlin Morris (01:11:19.902)
And I'm like sitting in my chair and I'm panicking. She was sleeping by the way. Like she wasn't even crying then, but I'm having these moments. And I remembered a friend of mine said, like your baby can feel you and your energy and your vibration. When you can stay calm, she will. No kidding, Jenny, she slept the whole time. It was totally fine. And I just recently did this little interview for an article of like how to help someone.

Jennie (01:11:33.074)
Yep. Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:11:48.574)
or help parents who are traveling with kids. And my first thought was like, bring compassion into the situation. Like ask them if they need help, if they need you to hold a baby so they can go pee. Like, you know, this community piece, this compassion that we've been talking about this whole time, for me, I just see when we can start with ourselves, when we can give it to our children, then we can also start bringing that into our.

Jennie (01:11:56.571)
Yes.

Jennie (01:12:00.954)
Yes.

Caitlin Morris (01:12:17.582)
community in our world, you know, but it starts with us and it starts with how we're parenting our kids and the ways that we can be gentle but firm, you know, hold all of these things and love ourselves in all of these different ways and pieces. Like it just makes it so much easier to keep going out and doing that for somebody else. And every time I tell that story I think of that woman and I send her love because something was going on that day, you know, it wasn't about me, right?

Jennie (01:12:18.982)
Yeah, yes.

Jennie (01:12:41.986)
Oh, you're better than me. Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't. I'm over here like, I would have punched her. No.

Caitlin Morris (01:12:44.862)
You know, it wasn't about me, you know, just like my kid having a tantrum is, I know, my kid having a tantrum is not a reflection of me. The way she reacted to me, not a reflection, you know, it's like, and so when we can also have that confidence, she was having a bad day. Yeah. Or, you know, she had a bad experience. I don't know. Maybe she sat next to a crying baby, but like, you know, the week before, I don't know. It sucks. But like also.

Jennie (01:12:57.682)
Yeah, she was having a bad day and yeah, yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:13:12.066)
know babies are going to cry so it's going to be a thing.

Jennie (01:13:16.774)
Well, babies are part of society. Like children are part of society and they're not, like we aren't leashing and muzzling our children. That's, it's just all of the things. You and I could talk for four hours.

Caitlin Morris (01:13:20.042)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:13:28.236)
Right.

Because if we do that, when we do that, yeah, I could talk about this forever. Yeah. When, if we did like leash, right? If we did muzzle, this is like so extreme. But like, when and where do we expect them to be themselves and take up their own space and take care of themselves, you know? Like, it has to start somewhere. So the sooner that we can be celebrating somebody for who they are, whenever that happens in their life, like that to me is a really beautiful, delicious opportunity.

Jennie (01:14:01.746)
I love that phrase celebrating, not just putting up with, celebrating who that child is and that they are expressing themselves instead of holding it in and exploding later in life. Like.

Caitlin Morris (01:14:08.691)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:14:13.581)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:14:18.935)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:14:22.034)
So many things I want to say, but we should wrap up.

Caitlin Morris (01:14:25.744)
Okay.

Jennie (01:14:28.711)
Um, yeah, but celebrating, not just putting up with, or even just accepting who someone is, but celebrating deeply knowing someone and loving their expression of themselves. Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:14:37.345)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:14:43.286)
Yeah, yeah. And you know, I probably said this 50 times already, but when we can do that for ourselves, makes it a lot easier to do it for our kids. You know, you said earlier, no child is the same, right? And that's something else I didn't really understand. I thought that it was gonna like, you know, once I had it figured out for the first one, like I just had to do it again for the second one. And like.

Jennie (01:14:56.785)
Yes.

Jennie (01:15:00.804)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (01:15:08.063)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:15:11.466)
That's not true. That's not how it's gone, right? So it's allowed that celebration piece for me has allowed this unfolding and this evolution.

Jennie (01:15:13.294)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:15:27.938)
to look at each of my kids and celebrate each of them as they're like stepping into, you know, more of who they are because it's been so fun too. And it is fun and it's going to be fun to see and, you know, watch them blossom in their own way. Exactly. Yeah, and I'm doing it too. I'm doing it with them. Yeah. You know, as I'm learning to take up my own space, yes. And celebrate me and be.

Jennie (01:15:38.151)
Right?

How exciting.

Yeah, like how exciting that you get to watch. Yeah, that you get to watch. Yes.

Caitlin Morris (01:15:55.434)
be too much and like, you know, do all of the things and follow what I want to do. Some of my family thinks I'm totally nuts because I'm a coach, but it's where, it's where I feel alive. Yeah. So as I get to do that, I get to also like give them that permission too. It's been so cool.

Jennie (01:16:03.194)
I love it.

Yeah.

Jennie (01:16:13.31)
I love that. That's perfect. That's a perfect ending spot. I love it. Is there anything that we did not touch on that you want to share with parents?

Caitlin Morris (01:16:32.046)
Hmm. Oh, I don't know. Like a final piece of wisdom. I don't think I have any. I always say that and then I'm like, but wait.

Jennie (01:16:39.91)
That's okay. No, I mean, we didn't cover that you were really hoping we would talk about or anything. There's no requirement. You can say no, I just want to check in with you.

Caitlin Morris (01:16:45.547)
Yeah.

No, no, this has been a really fun conversation and evolution of the pieces, you know, the pillars of my program and the awesome places that our programs overlap. And I just love connecting with you. So it's been, it's been really fun. So thank you so much.

Jennie (01:17:09.41)
Yeah, where I'll put all your stuff in the show notes, but let everybody know where they can find you.

Caitlin Morris (01:17:16.343)
Yeah, my website is coachingwithkaitlyn.com and my Instagram is at underscore with Kaitlyn. It's the Irish way, C-A-I-T-L-I-N. People always ask me that and then clarify if it's the Irish way, which is really funny. And that's where I hang out the most. I've got some freebies on my website. You can get on my email list.

Jennie (01:17:27.01)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:17:40.798)
I send a weekly email to my list and love connecting with people that way. And I, you know, I try to be on TikTok and some of the other things, but Instagram is my jam. So yeah, that's where you can find me. Yeah.

Jennie (01:17:51.022)
Yeah, that's the millennial jam, right? That's where we go. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. I know that it took us a couple of reschedules because life, man, life, yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:18:08.562)
Yeah, life. Yeah, no, thank you. Thanks for having me. It's been so fun to connect with you and thank you for your flexibility, but we did it and it was lovely. Can't wait to connect with them. Yeah.

Jennie (01:18:17.954)
Yes, we did it. And you're here in Colorado. So we can actually like be real friends and like person. That's so exciting. Yeah, so thank you everyone for being here. The Patreon is open. If you are here to support the mission, support parents, you can go in and there's three different giving levels in the Patreon.

Caitlin Morris (01:18:26.893)
Yes. No, no, no. Yeah.

Jennie (01:18:47.726)
all of the show notes, we will link Caitlin, all of her links, all of the references. I think we have, I have three different things we talked about in here that I'm gonna link, including this Oprah meditation of...

Caitlin Morris (01:19:02.678)
Yeah, I want that sounds really beautiful. I want to do that. I've not heard of that.

Jennie (01:19:06.282)
Yeah, I'm gonna link that. It was so amazing. And let's see, what else? Next week will be a Just Me and Dad episode and happy 4th of July, cause this will be coming out on the 6th. So happy belated 4th of July to everybody. I'm always like.

Caitlin Morris (01:19:27.499)
Awesome, cool.

Hehehehe

Jennie (01:19:33.518)
You know, we're always recording at a different time than it's releasing. So I always have to like think forward and think, like be like, what are, what's all the, what's happening in the future? I have to talk to it right now. So awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much, Caitlin.

Caitlin Morris (01:19:40.908)
Yeah.

Caitlin Morris (01:19:45.952)
Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much.

Jennie (01:19:52.446)
Bye everybody.

Caitlin Morris (01:19:54.518)
Bye.