The Relational Parenting Podcast

Jennie (00:00.898)
There's always some tech issue. Always. So like every episode we have. Yeah. I always tell people like, give us 15 minutes for tech. Give us an hour to record. Give us another 15 minutes for sign off and goodbyes. I always tell people like give yourself at least an hour and a half for us to like get through this. Okay. Everything looks good to me now. Does everything look good to everybody else?

Papa Rick (00:07.245)
I think the mothership, there's some adjustment that has to happen. Yeah.

Emily Blake (00:24.799)
testing.

Jennie (00:31.822)
Let's get started. Okay, welcome back everybody to the Relational Parenting Podcast. We are here with my friend, Emily Blake. Welcome, Emily.

Papa Rick (00:38.064)
Ha ha.

Emily Blake (00:43.199)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Jennie (00:46.186)
Yeah. We are so excited to have you. Ever since you and I spoke earlier this year, I have just, you're just so innovative and I love what you're doing as a single mom and the community that you're creating for other single moms so that you don't have to single parent anymore. You can co-parent with other women.

Papa Rick (00:46.212)
I am.

Emily Blake (00:47.871)
I pop a rip.

Jennie (01:13.722)
It's absolutely amazing and now you are actually launching like the full blown community service. And let's see, you're calling it Kin-Topia.

Yeah. Are you excited?

Emily Blake (01:28.607)
Yes, so this started as an experiment, right? In 2018, I had my son and became a single mom. I never really wanted to be a single mom. I don't think that's something anybody ever sets out to do. I was also raised by a single mom, and I deeply recognized all of the challenges that we had as a family.

Jennie (01:43.775)
Right.

Papa Rick (01:44.528)
Yeah

Emily Blake (01:53.983)
And so I really took the time to be like, you know what? I'm really great at a few things. I'm a social worker and I'm really amazing at cultivating, creating community. And if I'm going through these single parenting challenges with now a baby and also these housing challenges, then I can't be the only mom, that's only single parent that's going through this, right? And so I thought, could I, I started this co-living idea as a experiment. Could I create a community

where we could all come together and really support and help each other. And the resounding response over four years is absolutely yes, this is highly needed and we continually have a wait list. And so, like you mentioned, I'm launching Kentopia to create more co-living communities for the non-typical families. And I've cultivated enough experience over the past four years to know what works really, really well in co-living.

Papa Rick (02:31.964)
Cool.

Emily Blake (02:52.639)
and to ask the right kind of interview questions to find the best pairs for co-living success.

Jennie (03:02.762)
Yeah, so what are some of the things that are part of your interview question checklist of like pairing yourself, because you yourself live in a co-living situation, correct? So what are some of the questions that you ask to make sure people are kosher and match up for living together and parenting together? Because that's hard enough to find in-

Papa Rick (03:04.389)
So.

Jennie (03:31.33)
part committed romantic partners, let alone strangers, right?

Emily Blake (03:37.311)
Yes. And so most mom-muns or co-living situations, it's usually friends that decide, you know, we've known each other for a long time, we trust each other, our kids like each other, let's move in, let's cohabitate and make life better as a result of community. So, utopia is different in that you're meeting basically strangers, but I call them future friends, future mom-mates. And what I've learned that works really, really well

Jennie (03:38.455)
Yeah.

Jennie (04:03.774)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (04:07.423)
is okay so when I first started this in 2018 or 2019 I was like anybody that wants to co-live come live and then over that period of time I've learned um there's definitely I've had like hard learned lessons around what works and what doesn't work so if you're just looking to co-living who save money it ultimately will not work you have to look to co-living for community and the definition of community

Jennie (04:23.406)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Blake (04:33.279)
is what you put in, is what you can expect to get out. It is the cyclical, giving, loving type of a relationship. And if people are coming to community just expecting to take from community, it won't work. If people are coming to community and just always giving, it won't work either. It is this cyclical give-take relationships. The other thing that I've learned with co-living with littles, co-living with kids.

one thing to just have roommates and like come up with systems for you know cleaning but it's another thing when you have kids and so the kid aspect means you have to have similar parenting styles so like I don't yell at my son so I learned you know that that's really important to me when another mom yelled at my son and I was like oh no no no and so like I'm very mindful and like my discipline style.

Jennie (05:02.279)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (05:14.026)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (05:21.634)
Hahaha

Papa Rick (05:22.866)
raised voices yeah

Emily Blake (05:30.559)
And like, I deeply believe, you know, about breaking generational curses so that our kids are not raised by like the traumas that raised us, you know. And so I've done deep healing work myself, and I really support that for other, other moms. And I don't, I don't yell at him. I don't spank him. And there have been, you know, definite moments where, and this is also where I love about co-living is because in

I co-lived with two other single moms. And so I'm able to tell them like the highest vision of who I wanna be as a mom. And then what's nice is they can hold me accountable for that moments where I'm not being my best self. I just had a hard day and the moms are being like, hey, Em, you go take a break. We got Jayden for a little bit. And I'm like, oh my God, thank you. Cause like, there are those moments like we have the, we wanna be, and then we had the hard days when everything's hitting the fan.

Jennie (06:19.85)
Hahaha

Emily Blake (06:27.199)
And we're not ourselves. And I'm not coming to parenting as my best self. I'm coming as, you know, tired, worn out. You know, I have a, you know, I'm do Kintopia, but I also do grant writing consulting full-time. And so when I have like a ton of clients, a long day, and I'm not coming to parenting as my best self, it really helps to have partners in this co-living and co-parenting journey where, you know, if I'm at like 15%,

maybe they're at 50, maybe they're at 60, and then together we have much closer to 100% that we can all share and help.

Jennie (07:02.922)
Yes. I love that. That's so important in any living situation. I talked maybe a couple of episodes ago about how my husband and I do, we do the percentage system where we share if he's coming home from work or I'm coming home from work or we're, you know, whatever, we're having our reunion of the day. We always let each other know, not always, but usually.

where we're at percentage wise so that the other person knows what to expect energetically and what that person needs. You know, there's days he comes home and I can jump on him and tell him, you know, chatterbox about my day. And there's days that he's like, I'm at zero, I need like quiet, he's a nurse. So he just hears beeping in his head all day. And he's just like, I just need silence so that I can prepare myself to not

jump on him and unload and all of those things. And I think that that's, I love that you use that system. I also love that you guys are using, like you're holding each other accountable. That's really hard to do. That's really hard to be receptive to is that reflection from other people. And it really only works if you've like verbalized it out loud in an agreement together to say, hey, like we all wanna be the best.

parent that we can be. And I'm willing to accept your feedback when I am not fulfilling that promise to myself or to my child. And it sounds like you guys aren't like, it sounds like you're doing it in a loving way. The way that you parent your children is reflected in the way that you talk to each other when it's like, hey, your roommates, your mom mates aren't like, Emily, dude, chill. Calm down. You're being a jerk.

Papa Rick (08:41.554)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (09:01.998)
to your kid right now. They're like, hey, you know, it sounds like you've had a really hard day. Like, why don't you go take care of yourself, take a bath or whatever. Like we've got Jayden, everything's cool here. Like, go take care of yourself. Like we're here for you. Everything's gonna be okay.

Emily Blake (09:20.191)
Yeah, it's much, so in the interview process, we talk about the systems and our communication styles, what works really well for us. And one of my goals is to have that level of accountability to ask the mom-mates, this is something that is important to me around being a parent. Is this something that you're open to? And-

Nine times out of 10, people are super open to the growth level of parenting. There are two things in life that have made me a better person. It's definitely parenting and entrepreneurship. Like each of these challenges have made me grow as a person so much that, you know, it's

Papa Rick (09:56.442)
There you go.

Ahem.

Jennie (10:03.799)
Yes.

Jennie (10:08.354)
Yes.

Emily Blake (10:10.367)
And I think I find the people that are also really interested in, you know, becoming the best versions of ourselves, becoming better for our kids, putting our kids in a better path than we might've had ourselves having our kids have like really empowering, loving journeys. I told one of the moms yesterday, I was like, I'm on this mission in entrepreneurship so that Jayden never knows what an overdraft fee is. You know, like I want to make sure that he.

Jennie (10:39.263)
Mmm.

Emily Blake (10:40.543)
You know, like how many times I've had overdraft fees that just, you know, have like made me like paralyzed or I'm just like, Ooh, I'm going to call the bank and try to negotiate this overdraft. Are these like nine overdraft fees that hit? And, you know, I'm just like, I never want Gaden to experience that. I want him to experience like the fullness of life and really, um, setting him up in like an entrepreneurial journey early on so he knows like this reciprocal relationship around.

the energy that you give and how much you help other people is what you the currency of life and you can expect that back. And so yeah, I'm

Papa Rick (11:19.3)
Ha ha ha.

Emily Blake (11:21.631)
I'm excited to meet other single moms that are interested in, you know, kind of these growth, like personal professional growth, entrepreneurship, and co-parenting journeys. And I deeply believe that in community, we become better. We're better as a result. So like Kintopia, the name of Kintopia came as a result. I did a 60 second documentary and one of the comments the mom said...

Oh, this is like a mom-topia. And I was like, yeah, but I don't want to limit it to just moms. There was a time when like I couldn't, during the pandemic, I couldn't find a mom and a single dad was like, I know this is just for, this typically has just been for moms, but would you be open to a single dad? And at the time I was a little bit desperate and I was like, sure. And it actually worked out really beautiful. It was really wonderful. My son, you know, is typically around so many women from at school. And

Jennie (11:54.114)
Hmm.

Jennie (11:58.719)
Mm.

Jennie (12:12.301)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (12:19.999)
Um, and here, and so I was like, it was really nice having, having a father figure that Jay didn't, and also I don't want, I don't want to play fight. So when my five-year-old comes and like jumps on me, I'm like, no, absolutely not. But, but the dad was fighting and like beating him up with pillows. And I was like, Oh my God, thank you. I needed this. So I love the idea of, I chose Kintopia for the idea of like unconventional families, whether you're a single mom or dad.

Papa Rick (12:23.376)
Yeah.

Jennie (12:33.821)
I'm sorry.

Papa Rick (12:42.221)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (12:49.631)
whether you're a grandma raising kids, raising your grandkids, like whatever your unconventional family looks like, it can be made better in community.

So, Kintopia.

Papa Rick (13:02.38)
I love that. There's so many parallels to what you're doing that would be healthy in conventional families. I thank you for using that word conventional. You know, it wouldn't hurt conventional families to do a lot of this talking about parenting styles, you know, all the screening that you do. Really, everybody needs to do that. The accountability, the growth mindset.

Jennie (13:02.582)
I love it.

Jennie (13:12.683)
Right?

Papa Rick (13:30.636)
You know, these are all so important in relationships. I got to caution you about Jayden and the overdrafts though. Some kids, you know, they got to learn how to manage money. That's a great hope. But boy, you can always spend more than you have. How old's Jayden?

Emily Blake (13:47.167)
fingers crossed.

Emily Blake (13:52.383)
Jaden is five. So he just started kindergarten and he's been struggling with kindergarten too. So that's a whole new transition. So having other moms, my roommate, her son is eight. And so she's like, oh yeah, I've been through this transition. I'm working with the school to advocate my son get on an IEP. And so navigating that. And so she's been able to help me guide me with some of that. And so it's

Papa Rick (13:57.7)
It's five. Yeah.

Jennie (14:03.822)
Mm.

Papa Rick (14:04.048)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (14:22.559)
it's really made like parenting nicer. And so I think that the fear that comes up that people have is, you know, just the unknown of like, I don't know how this other person parents or, you know, actually like living with other women, that sounds terrible, that feedback before. And the idea of like, not just kin, like meaning family, but kinship.

Papa Rick (14:39.908)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (14:49.375)
Right? Like this idea that like if we have no, like Mother Teresa said, if we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. Right? And so our definition is it's reflecting this unshakable, innate goodness within the human family, like this deep abiding care and love and compassion that we can have for each other. And when you enter an agreement with that at the forefront, that's the goal.

Papa Rick (14:58.372)
Yeah.

Jennie (14:58.57)
Mmm.

Emily Blake (15:18.815)
it lets in grace and forgiveness and openness for, you know, like the mishaps that are bound to happen. Because the other thing I've known as a social worker is we are all our complete selves. And then life, we bump up against each other. Like, I don't know if you guys have ever read the four agreements, but the one agreement that you, you can't take anything personally. Like it's not about everybody's...

Jennie (15:42.243)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Blake (15:47.903)
navigating this world in their own world. And so when you're bumping up against each other, the other thing that I lay out in the community is like systems and processes for open and clear communication, that we are not mind readers, that we have to express ourselves and express what little thing is getting on our nerves that becomes a big thing if you don't talk about it, right? And so having regular, we have weekly family dinners.

Jennie (15:53.068)
Yeah.

Jennie (16:13.835)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (16:16.287)
And then we have, we also do like monthly like spa days and regular like meetings without the kids. So getting a sitter and then the moms just get together and can talk about, you know, what's going really well, what's not going as well. And communication becomes such a key element of successful co-living. And, but you have to build it in.

Jennie (16:41.19)
Yeah. Well, it sounds like, I mean, you're literally bringing in people and or counseling people on healthy relationship skills. Like you're, you're literally bringing people in, you're discussing how to communicate, how to like, like you're talking about a growth mindset, you're talking about people who are willing and open to give reflection and receive reflection, who are not going to take things personally, who can

Papa Rick (16:53.028)
Yep.

Jennie (17:10.698)
step up when one parent is struggling. And then you specifically are talking about your parenting style and the things that are non-negotiables for you, like yelling and hitting and things like that. And so you're literally creating communities and helping other people build relationships. And you're also attracting people who are interested in really healthy relationships.

and living in peace and growth together. And so not only are you facilitating help and community for parents who are on their own and struggling, but you're also facilitating children growing up in an environment full of healthy relationship examples.

Papa Rick (18:04.348)
Mm-hmm. More than just one, hopefully, you know, the primary relationship, but developing that extended family or that kinship, you know, that close family relationship with people in the community. You have so many more resources, so many skill sets, so many points of view to draw on that. That sounds like, that really kind of sounds old-timey, where the...

family homestead is, you know, everybody's near one another, everybody, there's a lot of family nearby. That sounds, that sounds incredibly helpful in this day and age.

Emily Blake (18:42.943)
Yeah, thank you. People have told me like, oh, you're, um, I'm such an optimist, right? Like even in the work that I do with grant writing, um, writing for and like writing, like creating funds for like ending systems of oppression and creating systems of care. I deeply believe that communities like this, how Adrienne Marie Brown calls them fractals, right? They become fractals of what's possible for the collective. And so that's the other reason why I started.

Papa Rick (18:50.512)
Hahaha!

Papa Rick (19:01.062)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (19:09.998)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Blake (19:11.231)
I wanted to crowdfund for Kintopia is to create more fractals, more proof points that this, you know, utopia of kinship is really possible for all human families and making sure that you have the tools and resources and support ready. That's like a built-in system within a home that then we can also extrapolate to.

you know, in systems of oppression like mass incarceration and create more systems of care, support, love, that end up having a much greater return on investment and much greater, like care beats any system of harm or oppression hands down. And I deeply believe we are at this unique in human history where we are going to start seeing a shift towards care.

Jennie (20:01.243)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (20:10.102)
I agree. Yeah.

Papa Rick (20:10.176)
I think you're right. I think you're right. There's a, there's a social evolution. While you were describing that the word social evolution came to mind, you know, as society gets more fragmented, you're putting out, you're, you're being a little, a little core. I like the word fractal too. Little pieces of DNA out that are now out in the, out in the gene pool, you know, that can be recombined. We're figuring out, society is figuring out how to move forward.

you know, with the digital, the social media, with all the things that have fragmented us in recent decades, you know, you seem to be on the forefront of figuring out a better way forward through that. That's really good to see.

Emily Blake (20:57.727)
And it's just, I think the next iteration of society that we create is going to center community, collaboration, connection, our innate human goodness. And I'm excited to support showing fractals of spaces that it's happening and possible.

Jennie (21:12.287)
Yeah.

Jennie (21:20.03)
Yeah. And you're really, you're really setting up these fractals. Um, you're, you're not just like creating it and, and being like, okay, good luck. You're really, it sounds like you have systems in place where you're setting everybody up for success. Um, I'm, I'm curious. I would.

Papa Rick (21:33.904)
Hahaha.

Emily Blake (21:40.575)
And I live in the community too.

Jennie (21:45.183)
I'm sorry.

Emily Blake (21:46.527)
And I live in the community too. So like I benefit by with the systems and processes. And one of my greatest two of my great values are peace and joy. Like in my home, I want to also have peace and have abundance of joy. And so these systems and setting up so that I can live my best life. And I'm also I love community. It's another key value of mine. And so I literally get to live with in.

Jennie (21:54.317)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (22:15.391)
you know, in a shared living co-living environment. And I wanna share that with others with Kentopia.

Jennie (22:23.554)
I love it. It's such an amazing project. And you've been working on this since 2018. Is that correct? Or at least this has been an idea for you since 2018.

Papa Rick (22:24.72)
Fantastic.

Emily Blake (22:36.319)
Yeah, so I had my son in April 2018. And then at the time, I was living with a friend and a roommate. And it ultimately just didn't work out because in theory, people are like, yeah, babies are great. But then when the baby is actually crying at 3 o'clock in the morning, and you have to get up and manage a restaurant, my roommate managed a restaurant in Culver City. So she was just like, you know what? In theory, this was beautiful. And in practice, it's just not going to work.

Jennie (22:58.03)
I'm sorry.

Emily Blake (23:06.331)
And so I was in the challenge, I faced, this house also came out of an experience of, I've always had roommates in Los Angeles. And after I had my son, I experienced so much housing discrimination because, oh, people don't wanna live with other kids that aren't theirs. And I was like, oh, mind blown things that are out there. Let me figure out, does, would this,

Papa Rick (23:29.168)
Hmm

Emily Blake (23:34.247)
This house also started as an experiment of would other single moms want to live with kids that aren't theirs? And the response has been resounding, absolutely. Like, yes, sign us up. And then the practice of it. So this, the, I wasn't able to actually get the house. So it's a two bedroom, sorry, a five bedroom, two bathroom, two story house near downtown LA. And the way that I secured the house was around.

Papa Rick (23:41.561)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (24:02.575)
in the summer of 2019. And so in the beginning, I was like, I posted to Facebook and I was basically like, any single mom's like, let's do this. And there were crickets at first. It was like, oh, nobody's going to come co-live with me. How am I going to pay all this rent? Like, it was pretty expensive. And so I was like, oh, no. And then I just kept like, one of the things that I can credit to myself is, um,

Papa Rick (24:21.348)
Yeah.

Jennie (24:23.277)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (24:32.731)
I'm a powerful innovator and I just don't give up. So I was starting to post it online and then I was like, okay, let me post it to these other groups. And then by talking to different people, they told me about other, like Coabode, coabode.com. And so that it's literally a site for moms to connect. And I was like, oh, I'm not the first person that created this, of course not. Nothing's new under the sun. I'm maybe one of the first to try to formulate it so that it's actually.

Papa Rick (24:51.972)
What was that?

Jennie (24:57.89)
Mmm.

Emily Blake (25:01.683)
Like there's a lot of co-living communities, but they typically focus on like entertainment industry or like younger people or older people with like co-living or like retirement folks. But there's no real co-living communities for families. And the ones that are out there are very, very expensive. And so the goal with Kentopia is to make it somewhat affordable and

Jennie (25:12.undefined)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (25:16.705)
Yeah.

Jennie (25:22.569)
There aren't, yeah.

Papa Rick (25:28.656)
Hmm.

Emily Blake (25:31.399)
Um, and put a lot of like, uh, safeguards and processes and systems in place so that the relationships are really centered. And that's what makes it, you know, relationships and community and, and kinship is really centered and that's what makes it work.

Jennie (25:54.107)
Yeah. So do you, if there's ever a dispute that a co-living, you know, not in your home, but in another area, if there's ever a dispute or a disagreement or maybe two families or three families feel like they're a great fit and they move in together and...

but things just aren't going well. What's kind of your, like, do you help them work through that? Do you help them, you know, kind of relocate? What is the process for, you know, some of the very natural things that may come up as far as conflict or things not working out?

Emily Blake (26:42.035)
That's a great question. And in four years of doing this, it absolutely has come up here where maybe I said something that really rubbed someone the wrong way, or maybe I wasn't involved, but it was between the other two roommates. And so they almost needed a mediator, right? And so how we've handled it is very much like, I anticipate and expect that people are going to have conflict. We're humans, it's a part of human relationships, that conflict comes up.

Papa Rick (27:01.596)
Mm-hmm

Jennie (27:01.655)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (27:11.855)
One of the things, so I'm a social worker and I've practiced restorative justice for the past 15 years. And in restorative justice, transformational justice, it talks about like the repairing the harm and coming full circle back around to like center the relationship center, make amends that yes, I recognize that there was this harm that was done and then you come back around to, you know.

make amends and that amends can look different depending on the circumstance. And so some of these things are agreements that are set up in the very beginning around, you know, these understandings that like we are human, we, you know, hope for the best and we're going to be prepared that if we do have a conflict that there is, you know, processes in place that we will resolve conflict and resolve conflict quickly and ultimately

resolving the conflict with the respect of the dignity and value of every person involved. So everybody has a chance to be heard, every person has a chance to... And these are also... I also... Okay, I nerd out about conflict a little bit because it's also a growth opportunity. Like we bump up against each other because someone is touching a trigger point of ours and when an unknown trigger point comes up and it's like, oh, here's an opportunity for us to grow, here's an opportunity for us to...

Jennie (28:28.439)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (28:31.735)
I love this.

Emily Blake (28:37.859)
And this is why it's also really important, I found, in interviewing moms, that the best-fit moms are the ones that really best fit community members. Moms, grandmas, uncles, you know, even, I've even had a roommate moved in and she was like, I'll just be the rich auntie. I was like, yes, we need rich aunties too. So, but the best community members are the ones that...

Papa Rick (29:01.458)
Ha ha ha!

Jennie (29:03.748)
Right? You're like, hell yeah!

Emily Blake (29:06.287)
You know, they're the ones that are really open to this growth mindset, this recognizing like none of us are perfect people. We all have our stuff. We all have our baggage that we're carrying. And are we willing to, you know, look at our muck, look at our ugly sides and say, this is something that I'm working on because I'm so focused on becoming this highest version of myself and

Papa Rick (29:06.896)
All the traditional roles, yeah.

Emily Blake (29:35.267)
you know, with so many relationships around, you're, it's also like a gift to be able to work on yourself. And then the other thing that I've thought about, so currently like I've been renting to own the house with the company and I'm the only one on the lease and that's a lot of pressure. And so with Kentucky, I'm creating a model where everybody's on the lease and everybody has shared benefit of renting, right? That creates this, you know,

Ultimately, relationships are a lot of work. And for people to be invested in doing the work, they have to be incentivized. And so I'm working on creating a model in which you're, instead of just your down payment or your first month rent, last month rent, going just towards rent and going to the landlord, I'm gonna create a bank for like a rent to buy type program. So you create a bank and when you move out,

You get this bank to buy a house, and maybe you and a couple of other single moms really enjoyed co-living with each other. Here's an opportunity for you guys to create an agreement and buy a home together if things really worked out the way that if you guys really found people that they liked. I also have this vision. So I'm working as a grant writer. I'm working with an architect right now. And she was just like, I was kind of like,

Jennie (30:52.13)
Wow.

Emily Blake (31:04.279)
before we started doing more of the grant writing stuff, I was kind of complaining about, you know, I'm looking at a bunch of different places for other Cantopias. And the issue always comes up that, you know, there's one opulent master bedroom and then the rest of the rooms are kind of like rent, you know? And so for it to really work, you want each of the moms to have their own, like, mama suite, you know, where you have a master type suite bedroom.

Jennie (31:23.105)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (31:34.067)
and like a walk-in closet and a, you know, like an opulent soap tub for you to like really relax, you know? And so I was telling my architect friend that I'm writing, or client that I'm writing a grant for, and she was just like, why don't you build that? And I was like, wait, what? And she was like, yeah, you can get a room and, you know, I'll help you design it. And that's, that's something you can build. And I was like, oh, so that happened over the summer.

Jennie (31:39.031)
Yeah.

Jennie (31:55.547)
Hmm

Emily Blake (32:03.979)
And that epiphany was like, oh wow, I really do need to create kintopia and create co-living spaces where each mom feels like we're thriving, like you're, you get to live in your opulence because of epiphany.

Papa Rick (32:19.636)
Mm-hmm. Another evolution. I love that. I love you talk about the restitution. All these...

Jennie (32:19.819)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (32:24.763)
And then also having like a massive shared playroom, having each of the kids rooms, like having a younger, so I've also learned in four years of living, having the younger kids be able to like have a room together and having the older kids have a room together and then separating it by gender. So like, younger girls, younger boys, older girls, older boys, and then having like a massive like play area, having

Papa Rick (32:34.669)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (32:54.235)
You know huge beautiful kitchen and then the idea okay So if I'm gonna do like a luxury option of Kentucky when I really start to play with the idea I'm like hey, then we can hire a nanny with like if there's seven moms Seven to ten moms together the cost of like, you know, two nannies becomes doable across seven to ten of us you know and then the cost of you know like a chef the cost of you know, when I think about like

Jennie (33:08.141)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (33:24.463)
What would our most opulent lives look like? And the days that I've lost it on Jayden are the days that I didn't have any support, you know, I didn't have another mom there to like, help me help him with his homework, get dinner on the table, uh, finish all my client work and make sure that he gets in bed and then I'm able to wake up at five 30 to get him to the, you know, bus at 6 AM the next morning. Like we all need a little help.

Jennie (33:34.551)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (33:53.079)
And so it's nice to be able to like, you know, come together and then we can collectively afford these services and we can collectively afford the support because it's one thing to rotate, you know, babysitting. And it's another thing to, you know, hire a babysitter so that we all get a break. And so I want to be able to cost that out and include that and some of like maybe the luxury options of the Kentucky of the future.

Jennie (33:54.719)
Yeah.

Jennie (34:13.451)
Right?

Jennie (34:21.002)
I was just going to say, like, you could even, like, I was just, I was thinking like in, within the community, whether it's two or three moms and or dads or seven to 10, like there's shit that you can, you can rotate who's babysitting or who's got the kids. And so everybody gets a night out or a, or a night off to just like be alone or something, you know? Um, but how, how much like even better would it be to pool resources and like hire a nanny?

Emily Blake (34:44.087)
I don't know.

Jennie (34:50.174)
Um, you know, if, if you're getting mean in LA, I bet, I bet a good nanny costs a minimum of 30 bucks an hour. Um, and if that can be a $10 an hour thing split three ways or split seven ways, it's like $3 an hour. Like how much more affordable and how much more often could you do that and have like feel as a parent? Like I get, I get a regular break. Not just like.

Emily Blake (35:13.353)
Yeah.

Jennie (35:19.622)
once in a while, if I can possibly scrape it in. But like we have built in, you know, twice a month, we all, we hire a nanny and we all get to do our own thing for the night or the day or whatever. Like, and then you get to come back as like, your cup is now full as a parent and you can be a, like you can now pour from a full cup for your children.

Papa Rick (35:21.135)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Blake (35:46.791)
And this idea of, I really want everybody to like live their, their highest visions for their life. And so I've met some moms that only want to be homemakers. And so I've met some moms that actually stayed in toxic relationships because they didn't have the economic viability to move out and be on their own. Right. And and to what I'm thinking of in particular, both of them were just like, I love being a homemaker. That's all I want to do.

Papa Rick (35:48.397)
Very interesting.

Jennie (36:01.438)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (36:09.265)
Mm.

Emily Blake (36:16.835)
I'm like, that's great. And every Kentucky is going to need that, you know? Because I love working. I've worked since I was 14. I love what I do. I love the gifts that I get to share with clients. I don't want to be a homemaker, but I definitely value and know that we need more moms like that. And so I also see Kentucky as domestic violence survivors being able to leave really toxic, harmful systems.

Jennie (36:23.04)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (36:23.621)
Yeah.

Jennie (36:32.971)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (36:46.259)
harmful situations and being like, okay, I'm going to apply for being the Kentucky like nanny. I'm very big on like you bring their kids. It would be a job for them, but it would also be home. I think that also creates such a synergy around like,

Jennie (36:59.41)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (37:07.844)
Yeah.

Jennie (37:10.914)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (37:16.571)
You know, live our best lives, live our bliss.

Jennie (37:21.198)
I love this.

Papa Rick (37:21.208)
Yep, if you had a collection of seven or ten people, then there's a lot of room for roles. There's all kinds of niches to be, for people to participate in that in different ways. That's a great idea.

Jennie (37:27.234)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (37:28.239)
Yeah. Let's hope.

Emily Blake (37:34.949)
Totally.

Jennie (37:36.418)
Well, even like you were saying, like the single dad that you lived with who came in and would wrestle with Jaden and fill that role that you were like not, you're like, I'm not going to wrestle with you. There's.

Papa Rick (37:42.749)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Blake (37:52.787)
I'm like, but stop climbing on me. I really don't like it.

Jennie (37:55.382)
Yeah.

Jennie (37:59.146)
Right, right. And there's so much value too in kids growing up with people, with healthy role models and trusted adults who fill different roles so that they get to see the array of differences in people and how people come together and work together as a team. And there's different strengths and weaknesses. And

the kids learn that they can go to different adults for different questions or things that need fulfilled. Maybe like you're terrible at math and Jayden's gonna need help with math homework and there's a parent in the house who is great at math. Like, cool, like you help my kid with math, I'll help yours with English or whatever, you know?

Emily Blake (38:40.799)
Yeah, yeah. I think it will happen.

Papa Rick (38:46.736)
Diversity is good, you know, different genders, different skill sets. Yeah, that's a terrific model.

Emily Blake (38:46.739)
Yeah, I think.

Emily Blake (38:53.511)
And the one thing, so when people say, oh, you're living with that many people, it must be that scary. When you have a space that's big enough, like I currently live in a five bedroom, two bathroom house that has two living, well, a living room and let's say like a den. And we have this shared office space. And then I share it with three other single moms. So each mom has their own room.

Jennie (39:12.908)
Mm.

Emily Blake (39:22.759)
The kids have a shared kids room. Currently, we all live with boys that are under the age of eight, so it works out. And then, but ultimately, like, if kids are younger, gender-wise, it's been fine to share rooms. But as I had, I learned from living with an 11-year-old girl, and then we had two younger boys, that it would have been nice for her to have her own room, you know? And so I'm thinking about all of these intellectual experiences

Jennie (39:38.071)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (39:48.292)
Yeah. Puberty.

Jennie (39:48.321)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (39:50.943)
that I've had over the past four years and then intentionally creating, and that's gonna be the biggest difference, is this crowdfunding campaign is to intentionally create a co-living community that is spacious and big and has this nice big kitchen and has lots of different gathering spaces for us and is four stories tall and has a basement playground. And I'm getting super creative. And I'm also...

Jennie (40:15.117)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (40:17.695)
super open to like other ideas. So if any listeners are like, we love this and we have thoughts, send them my way.

Jennie (40:24.406)
Yeah, in other cities, like, cause I think you mentioned earlier in the conversation, you're looking at other locations for doing this. Are you looking outside of LA? You know, like, if you were to expand your wildest dreams, you know, setting up Cantopias all over the US in different cities, I can see this being huge.

Emily Blake (40:43.231)
Yeah, great question. Also, I've been consulting with single moms to create, like this is, Kintopia is the first iteration of us acquiring property and building more homes like this. But prior to this, Kintopia, I was doing more consulting with single moms to create their own co-living communities and using all of my.

templates for leases and interview questions and whatnot. And so I've had moms that are doing this in, that I've helped consult in Portland, in the Bay Area, in Seattle, and in New York. And I would love for there to be kintopias literally all over the world. I think it would be also such a beautiful way to bring about the idea of kinship. And I am deeply-

Papa Rick (41:17.336)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Blake (41:40.575)
I love the idea of raising my son as a global citizen, right? And so no better way to do that than have Kentucky is everywhere.

Papa Rick (41:50.656)
Yeah, the diversity helps. I can see a cooperative. I'm no business guy, but, or if you could get this going in areas that were a DCFS or some kind of already existing set of services would lead the way and provide resources to them, you know, would help that spread because it's a need that's everywhere.

Jennie (41:50.891)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (42:18.636)
in the country now. The trick is how to roll it out and finance the property. And it requires something, all these things you were saying, it requires somebody who's lived in it, or you know, there are certain skills to get it started up. A lot of single mothers, a lot of individuals are not going to be prepared to do what you're doing. And to take that on some way to facilitate that from afar.

consulting or something. That's a great idea. That fits such a need in society. And I wish you all the best in figuring out how to get that all over the country. That sounds really exciting.

Emily Blake (43:00.511)
that you mentioned, you know, organizations and departments like DCFS, right? So many times single moms, we are, you know, put in the position to have these systems be in our lives. Sometimes the systems can be supportive and maybe give us access to some sources and support, but nine times out of 10, they are not supportive. They are harmful and they don't, you know, they don't end up, and I'm a social worker, right? Like I deeply believe

Papa Rick (43:16.696)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (43:22.862)
Yeah.

Jennie (43:23.84)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (43:28.703)
that we need social work, we need social workers to keep kids safe. And we also need social workers to have more resources dedicated towards making sure that kids stay with the parents than resources to take kids out of homes. And so, um, I do cultivate, um, so this is my idea for like structure. I love that you mentioned business stuff. So I'm super, I'm a super nerd when it comes to business stuff. And so.

Papa Rick (43:39.714)
Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

Jennie (43:42.782)
Yeah. Yes.

Emily Blake (43:56.287)
I've consulted with nonprofit and for-profit clients for grants, and I get questions about Kentopia. Well, how are you structuring it? Is it going to be a nonprofit? Is it going to be a for-profit? And I'm really interested in the ideas of hybrid models, right? And before 2012, there didn't exist a... Like this 2012, we saw the benefit corporation rise, right? Which is you can now have a corporation...

Papa Rick (44:08.08)
Yeah.

Jennie (44:08.427)
Hmm.

Emily Blake (44:25.023)
but it can have a triple bottom line of people, planet profits. And so I would open it as a benefit corporation. And then I'm also thinking about the nonprofit side of doing programming for moms, right? Like the spa days, the financial investing courses. So you're living here, but you're taking these financial investing courses, these home buying courses, to set you up for becoming a homeowner yourself. I'm deeply committed to leverage.

leverage Kentucky to make sure that more single parents not only exit out of poverty, but leave a legacy of generational wealth for our kids. I no longer having been raised by a single mom myself, I no longer want moms to moms or single dads or, you know, grandmas that are raising their grandkids to struggle. I don't want that to be our, you know, the uniqueness of our families means that we have to live in struggle. I think.

Papa Rick (45:16.368)
Yeah.

Jennie (45:19.09)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (45:22.783)
Kentopia can be a vehicle for collective thriving and collective wealth and generational wealth building.

Papa Rick (45:23.568)
Yeah.

Jennie (45:23.629)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (45:29.92)
I agree, I agree, it's a way out of this, the mess we've got ourselves in with raising kids and broken families.

Jennie (45:38.954)
And you're creating, you've mentioned this word a couple of times, and I really want to highlight the longevity of what you're doing. And you've related that to your restorative justice work in the past. And I think that you are carrying that torch forward with this and serving a population that has maybe been overlooked for it. I think that there's a lot of...

there are government resources, there are women's shelters for domestic abuse sufferers, and there are some social services in place for very specific populations, but one, they're always overcrowded, there's never enough. And two, like you said, they're not always really truly in service to thriving.

Papa Rick (46:30.234)
Yeah.

Jennie (46:37.066)
Um, and it's, it's more about like, we've got to check the boxes. You've got to get these, you know, people processed and things in and then out. And, um, it's still, they're still usually living, living in some level of poverty. And, um, I've worked, I did it. I've done some social work, um, with adults with disabilities for a few years. I worked for an agency. Um, I've worked with foster children and I've worked, um, for a couple of years with, uh,

kids in juvenile detention centers and learned a lot. I also took some restorative justice, criminal justice, in college, actually, now that I'm, that memory just flashed. But talking about how the systems of punishment, locking people up, punishing people, and I'm not advocating for letting

Jennie (47:37.146)
But there are so many levels of mistakes that can be made or situations that kids especially are born into and repeat cycles because they don't know any better. Like they were literally just born into it and that's all they know and that's all they see. And the way to break that cycle is to teach them a different way, not to continue the cycle with punishment, shame, guilt, all of these things, but to actually

Papa Rick (47:45.916)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (47:49.916)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (48:05.41)
help them heal, show them a different way. And I feel like that, and that's that type of rehabilitation, they've shown that actually transforms people and helps them change their lives for the better for long periods of time versus recidivism rates, which are still just insanely high.

Papa Rick (48:06.981)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (48:25.787)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (48:29.698)
people who get out of prison or out of detention centers or whatever, like they re-offend. I think the last statistic I saw was 93% re-offend. I don't know if that's still accurate, but rehabilitation and teaching healthy habits and like real skills, real life skills is always going to trump just the processing of systems, just to say that we checked the box and did the thing.

Papa Rick (48:37.668)
Yeah, it's hard to get out.

Emily Blake (48:37.919)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (48:41.983)
in certain places.

Emily Blake (48:58.559)
And the return on investment. So how much it costs to incarcerate child in this country is enormous. I don't know With the business and it it creates an economy right like you Because you have these jails you have these prisons now you need the more in the 1970s They were they there were political scientists that were saying we're not gonna need prisons

Jennie (49:02.398)
Yeah. Right?

It's a business. It's a business.

Emily Blake (49:27.743)
soon enough. And then we had mass incarceration and the drug prohibition and all these manufactured war on drugs, right? If you look at it like there's been a criminal blow up of what is considered in a penal code today that you can get incarcerated for.

Papa Rick (49:29.436)
Haha.

Jennie (49:39.502)
crimes.

Papa Rick (49:42.67)
Some would argue that was a racism thing too.

Emily Blake (49:56.479)
wasn't considered a crime in the 1970s. There's all these things that like now that we have, I like to talk about the prison industrial complex. It operates like a hotel. So now that you have the beds, you fill the beds by passing more and more policies. And it becomes this myth of criminality. Yeah, I could get into all things justice all day. But ultimately.

Jennie (50:06.882)
Yeah.

Jennie (50:21.068)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (50:21.413)
I think we're with you there, being held, being incarcerated.

Emily Blake (50:23.199)
having done work in the criminal justice reform space, in the criminal legal system intervention and what really works and talking about the cost of incarceration, not just like the fiscal costs, but also the cost to communities, also the cost to someone's self-worth and the cost to our GDP. The United States has created a unique

problem with mass incarceration in which 70 million people are navigating the workforce with a record and we have to the only way we're going to get out of this mess that's costing our GDP 86 billion dollars a year is if we if we care about people enough to give them opportunities to train them to give them jobs to see them beyond their worst mistake to see them as you know human we all have made mistakes maybe we haven't all

Jennie (51:15.147)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (51:20.191)
gotten caught and gone to jail for it, gone to prison for it. We have all made mistakes. It is a thread of common commonality in our humanity. And if we are able to tap into forgiveness, tap into processes and protocols and restorative justice and create like what I believe is also on the precipice is a true system of justice that both holds folks accountable and accountability means if you

Jennie (51:30.306)
Yeah.

Jennie (51:47.346)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Blake (51:49.759)
Um, you know, if you commit a crime, you are responding to the community, you are responding to, um, the folks that you hurt. So let's take, you know, everybody, when I talk about that, I'm an abolitionist. Uh, everybody always says, well, what about the murderers? So let's talk about murder. If you commit murder, then you will have to respond to that family's mother. You'll have to talk to her, the grandmother, the children, the people that you harmed. Um,

Jennie (51:58.765)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Blake (52:19.519)
And currently we have a system where someone can commit murder and get completely off scot-free and never have to make amends for hurting those families and communities. And so this could be a whole podcast episode in and of itself.

Papa Rick (52:29.764)
restitution.

Jennie (52:31.725)
Yeah.

Jennie (52:38.002)
Right? Well, and we could even like literally everything that you're saying, you know, is everything that we're teaching on this podcast about relational parenting is that you are held, you are held accountable to high standards as children, right? Parents are holding their children to high standards and expectations.

But there's also a level of empathy and understanding and child development and what a child's actually capable of doing at a given age and how we respond to them teaches them how to respond to the world. So if you see, if you're punishing and shaming your child all the time and you see them reflecting that back to you by yelling at you, talking back to you, screaming at you, disagreeing with you, rebelling against you, you need to look in the mirror. That, what you're doing.

is what they're gonna do back to you. And so it's similar, like we teach our kids how to repair. By showing them when we mess up, we're going to repair with you, we're going to apologize, we're going to talk about what I did and what I could have done better and how I could have responded to you better and how I'm gonna do it better next time. And there's forgiveness and acceptance of your humanness and the mistakes that you make, right? Because I'd rather...

Papa Rick (53:44.183)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (54:05.078)
this child makes their mistakes here in the safety of childhood for 18 years and has that place to learn and overcome and become an adult who can go out into the world and not make these huge life altering mistakes. But if they're just shamed and punished the whole time they're growing up, then they're not gonna have any tools for going out into the world and not making those mistakes. And there's just so many parallels. Yeah.

Emily Blake (54:31.583)
Think of it.

I think it has, so Patrice Cullors wrote a book, I'm forgetting what it's called all of a sudden, but it's basically talking about, oh, the abolitionist handbook. And so Patrice Cullors wrote the abolitionist handbook and it talks about bringing abolition into everyday practices. And so there's key examples of parenting through an abolitionist lens. It's so much easier as a parent to be like, oh, you messed up, you go to the corner.

Papa Rick (54:35.376)
One aspect I like about this is it can heal that.

Emily Blake (55:04.671)
You messed up, you go upstairs to your room. That's exactly what we do as a system in jail and prisons. You messed up, you get kicked out of community for a little bit. And what we've come to know that's the more healing, reparative, and ultimately successful way is relational parenting and coming and talking to our children about the behaviors.

Jennie (55:09.514)
Yeah. Baby jail.

Papa Rick (55:12.464)
The dense cap, yeah.

Emily Blake (55:33.919)
what was the context of the, I'm really big on behavioral intervention and understanding the context in which they chose different behaviors, right? Like my son at school, he pushed a teacher. And so I was like, wow, like that's not him on an everyday basis. Like it would be really helpful for me to understand what was going on so I can talk to him about it. And so when I talked to the teacher, she said, oh, he was having a really hard time doing his numbers and his letters.

Papa Rick (55:55.659)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (55:55.79)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Blake (56:02.623)
and he wanted to get up and go play, but it wasn't play time. And so that was the reason. And so when he was able, understanding that context, when he was able to get home, I talked to him about, you know, being mindful and sitting in a chair and doing his breathing exercises and, you know, using the tools that really help him stay calm and centered and focused so that he knows, like, OK, the faster I get these numbers and letters done, the faster I can go play. And so

Jennie (56:06.253)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (56:24.088)
regulated.

Jennie (56:30.699)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (56:31.903)
that that behavioral intervention becomes essential. But making sure that we are not like othering our kids and being like, you go over there, like you're the problem, and instead being like, you're not a problem. Your behaviors are just not what we would, they're not conducive to what we really want. And let's talk about them, let's explore, and let's get some new behaviors, some new tools, some new interventions that are going to help you actually get what you really want. You want to go play, you don't want to be in timeout.

So it creates win-wins.

Jennie (57:04.042)
Well, and the emotion behind, so the situation, explaining that he was having a hard day is really helpful. And then also asking him, because there's always an emotion or a need behind a behavior, right? And so it's not always just about like, we need to change this behavior, but we need to look at...

What emotion was he feeling? And okay, what tools can we now, like you were talking about the breathing, like what tools can we give him to use instead of pushing a teacher to move that frustration out of his body? Like, okay, he's having an emotion, energy and motion in that moment. And, you know, sounds like, hey, were you really frustrated that you couldn't go play? Yeah, you know, I was. Okay, here are some things that we can do to move that frustration out of your body instead of.

pushing a teacher because that is not a socially acceptable behavior. You're causing harm and we don't do that in community. We don't cause harm to one another.

Jennie (58:14.742)
Dad, you were starting to say something a minute ago. What were you saying?

Papa Rick (58:18.612)
I just noticed that there are a lot of, what was the thing about how the world is the way it is, right? And bruhm. And

Emily Blake (58:27.615)
He's frozen on my screen.

Papa Rick (58:36.696)
Hang on a second. That this is, I'm seeing this as a real good way of attacking. I...

Jennie (58:37.646)
Hehehehe

Emily Blake (58:42.047)
Yeah, I think we're collectively coming to new understandings around what works best for kids.

Jennie (58:51.294)
I think, sorry, I think, Emily, I think that you can't hear my dad. Cause when my, there's been a couple of times where my dad's talking and then I think it looks or sounds like a long awkward pause and then Emily starts talking, I think there's a disconnect or something between the two of you.

Papa Rick (58:58.62)
Testing, testing.

Papa Rick (59:05.877)
That's all right.

Papa Rick (59:10.82)
Is there a timing problem?

Emily Blake (59:12.479)
I can't, he's frozen on my screen.

Jennie (59:14.158)
I, yeah, so I think on Emily's screen, Dad, you're frozen. I can see and hear you.

Papa Rick (59:19.357)
That's what I figured.

That's fine. Is Emily coming through to you okay, pretty interactively? So I'll just be quiet. All I wanted to say, if I can get a segment in there, is once upon a time, I knew a youth probation officer, and she helped me rewrite, there was an athletic code that I thought was pretty, it's punitive, what you were talking about before.

Jennie (59:25.726)
Yeah, I can see both of you. Yeah.

Jennie (59:41.495)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (59:51.396)
The athletic code was like, all you do these things and all it did is punish and say, okay, you, you know, you can't play in four games or something. There was no element of restitution to it. The restorative justice thing. And I, and I modified the existing athletic code and everybody hated it. This was in small town America, but getting past.

Jennie (01:00:03.703)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:00:14.254)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (01:00:16.624)
getting people, a lot of people to go from a mindset of punishment is what we need to restoration, restitution, that kind of healing. Let's make the world a better place. I've found that can be a real hard sell in places, whereas it's very obviously going to create a better world, you know, in the long term. People, a lot of people don't like to look at

Jennie (01:00:35.371)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:00:40.92)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:00:46.144)
Yeah, this kid's causing trouble because he's from a bad home and they're not interested in fixing the bad home. They're just interested in being judgemental. So the upshot is I'm looking at this Kentopia thing as, I think this has a real shot that the government, you know, they have substance abuse counseling. Sorry, I'm wandering around here. It's triggering a bunch of things. Yeah.

Jennie (01:01:05.974)
So just, so hold on a second. Emily, have you heard any of what he's been saying?

Papa Rick (01:01:12.609)
Really.

Emily Blake (01:01:12.863)
No, I was just gonna say if you could debrief for me what he said, because I'll be here in a minute.

Jennie (01:01:16.606)
Yeah. So I'm going to translate, because I can cut the part where I translate what you're saying, Dad. And then it'll just look like we're having a conversation. Um.

Papa Rick (01:01:17.616)
testing. Okay.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Papa Rick (01:01:27.643)
It's a miracle of podcasting.

Jennie (01:01:30.07)
So my dad, he was talking about, he knew, are you talking about Lynn, dad? Yeah, so we had a neighbor who was in the justice system and he was telling a story about how when he was on the school board many, many a year ago, he helped rewrite the athletic code from a punishment system for kids who had been caught drinking or doing drugs, having to sit out

Papa Rick (01:01:38.86)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jennie (01:01:59.966)
you know, a number of games or whatever as a punishment. And he had helped rewrite the athletic code to being something that was more restorative justice and that he found, we lived in a very small town, and he found that there was a lot of pushback from parents. He said he was really, really shocked at how much pushback there was because so many people.

Papa Rick (01:02:19.755)
I was really surprised how much pushback there was.

Jennie (01:02:28.43)
have been raised in a system of punishment and they're not interested or they don't think that it works to help people overcome mistakes, but simply we must shame it and punish it so that it stops. So that's what he was talking about. So he's, hold on, he's finishing. Sorry.

Papa Rick (01:02:43.392)
And so coming at this sideways this way and in improving, improving the, uh, the living circumstances of kids and the parenting of the kids and stuff is a way to sneak in and make, and make the world a better place that way, you know, till that's more common. I think coming in, coming in with a thing like Kentopia is a great idea towards alleviating that and a bit, and it's going to take.

Emily Blake (01:02:45.055)
Yeah, thank you for that.

Jennie (01:03:06.625)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:03:11.588)
It's going to take years and years and years, but I think those are the kind of the real social evolution things that have an effect long term.

Jennie (01:03:20.77)
So then he was relating that to what you're doing, Emily, with, he called it the social evolution of restorative justice and bringing those systems in where people can start to see and experience the value of healing and communities and discussion and conflict resolution and all of these different skills that you're

teaching people and bringing people in with growth mindsets and the children who grow up in these homes are going to witness that and grow up in that environment as well. And to be able to come at it from a different angle to teach society that there is value and longevity in these things. Yeah.

Emily Blake (01:04:09.375)
So I always say it's not a great conversation unless I cry and doing this work. I cry at least once, you know, and I always tell clients like, don't worry, I will likely cry when we were working together because I'm so inspired by what you're doing or working on. But thank you for that reflection, Rick. I think that that is, and also thank you for the work that you did to lead this movement towards care, towards restorative justice, towards.

Jennie (01:04:11.262)
Mmm... Mwah!

Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:04:25.433)
No.

Emily Blake (01:04:36.639)
We are not going to incarcerate our way out of problems. We have to do better as a society. We have to care enough about people to make a difference, make a change. And the more we try to shun people, the more we try to get them out of, as long as I can't see it, it doesn't exist, is not a solution. We cannot incarcerate our way out of poverty. We cannot incarcerate our way out of.

Papa Rick (01:04:41.892)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:04:48.836)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:04:56.526)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (01:04:59.226)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:04:59.372)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (01:05:03.487)
the housing crisis, we cannot incarcerate our way out of problems, the social problems. We have to care enough about people to see, okay, what actually works? What is the data showing us? What is research showing us? And time and time again, having programs that are care-based around education, mental health, talent development. And ultimately, like Cornell West has this saying of...

Justice, like you can know it's justice when it looks like love. I'm butchering the quote and I love his quote. So forgive Dr. West. But the close, I don't have all the solutions but I know the barometer I will use to judge the, or to say if we are closer to justice or not is does it look like love? And I can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt, having done this work for 20 years, the closer the solutions look like love.

Papa Rick (01:05:38.146)
Hmm.

Jennie (01:05:38.272)
Mmm.

Papa Rick (01:05:53.85)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (01:05:54.358)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (01:06:01.471)
the closer we are to a more just and humane and system of care that will ultimately work, that will not cost a fortune, and that will really help us collectively thrive.

Jennie (01:06:11.725)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:06:12.249)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:06:15.282)
Yeah, I love it. Hehehehehehe.

Papa Rick (01:06:21.697)
Keep at it. Stay practical. That's the hard part. You know, there's a lot of substance abuse. People that would benefit from substance abuse don't get counseling, don't get it because it's expensive. There are a lot of things that are expensive. And you exploring, Emily, you exploring all of these ways to make these things happen, you know, without needing government input, without needing to convince a bunch of people.

Jennie (01:06:22.481)
Ah!

Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:06:48.332)
It's a business, it's a whatever, self-sustaining. That, I think that's the way it's gonna work. I think you're onto something.

Jennie (01:06:56.01)
Yeah. He was saying that you're really onto something with, it's kind of a grassroots movement that you've created here and you're building it from the ground up and you're recruiting all the people and getting people on board, but you're not having to go through the government or convince people it's a good idea. You're able to build this and...

Papa Rick (01:07:20.944)
just do it.

Jennie (01:07:23.374)
make it happen and build the community yourself and make these things, you know, make life more affordable and not just affordable, but beautiful for people to be able to thrive and overcome and live a beautiful life.

Emily Blake (01:07:39.839)
I mean, I'm just super grateful to have incarnated at a time when we have the internet, when we have options like crowdfunding, the collective resources to make a vision like this possible. So I'm just forever grateful. And I love the idea of, you know, I think it, this hybrid idea of it can both be a

Jennie (01:07:44.622)
Hmm. Yeah.

Emily Blake (01:08:07.199)
benefit corporation and it can have elements of a nonprofit and the nonprofit for all of the programs for like the kids and programs for the adults living in the home and I also deeply believe that shared like not just shared communal living where everybody has this is at the same level like I think what's worked well really worked well what's worked really well here

Jennie (01:08:14.144)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Blake (01:08:36.127)
is having moms that are at different levels. Like I've had a mom that was just starting like different levels in our career, different levels in our income. And I deeply believe that all tides raise all boats. Like we can help each other get to like our best next level. And that level of care and support and help, there's a mom that I lived with that she ultimately moved out because she got in a relationship. But...

Papa Rick (01:08:40.633)
Hmm.

Jennie (01:08:50.647)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (01:09:05.374)
There was a time when she was just like, no, no, I'm not giving up, and I'm not going to give up my mom-mate. And so it really made her part. She pulled out all the stops to be like, no, we're going to get married. I'll make this worth your while. And so I also think that it's, you know, Kintopia can also be, like, you know, at some point with families. Like, you know, there are going to be, like, it's, nothing is ever perfect. Humans are messy. And so I don't.

Jennie (01:09:12.622)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (01:09:21.343)
Hahaha!

Jennie (01:09:28.31)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (01:09:35.167)
exactly know how this will play out. I just have the infinite abundant trust in relational and social work. Like relation, like in social work you learn two things. One, relationships are everything and two, to trust the process. And so I'm just having the massive trust of this vision and this massive trust of I know people well enough and skill, people skills well enough.

Jennie (01:09:45.015)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:09:52.874)
Yes.

Emily Blake (01:10:03.807)
to combat anything that can happen.

Jennie (01:10:04.215)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:10:09.47)
Yeah, that's what relationship skills give you is the ability to navigate anything, anything life has to throw at us. We can navigate through relationship, healthy relationship skills. Yeah.

Emily Blake (01:10:17.599)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:10:26.084)
That's the, uh, that's the lone wolf dies. The pack survives. Thing that the diversity in the, I always go to these horrible metaphors, uh, the diversity like sibling rivalry, having not having no two people in the group that are identical, they're not competing for the same niche, you know, sounds like a really good, really good methodology that, uh, so you don't get

Jennie (01:10:28.884)
talking.

Jennie (01:10:32.653)
Ugh.

Papa Rick (01:10:54.85)
you get more diversity amongst the people, more sharing of skill sets. Good system.

Jennie (01:11:01.626)
He said, the lone wolf dies, the pack survives. Is that what you said? And then, so he said, the lone wolf dies, the pack survives, and then he talked about the benefits of the diversity of the group and how you mentioned like the income levels and all of that and how.

Papa Rick (01:11:08.003)
Yeah, yes!

Papa Rick (01:11:28.988)
competition.

Jennie (01:11:31.022)
There's no two identical people, so no one's ever competing for the exact same spot in the pack, in the community. But rather, everyone is filling the role that they were meant to fill.

Papa Rick (01:11:38.608)
like siblings, yeah.

Emily Blake (01:11:45.055)
I just, okay, so I just thought of the quote as it should be. The Cornell West quote is, justice is what love looks like in public. So the more that we're able to see these systems reflect love, the more that we're able to, and I deeply believe that after reading Marie Brown's book, that as we're able to create fractals of them, it's proof points. These fractals can-

Jennie (01:11:54.025)
Oh.

Emily Blake (01:12:12.767)
can then connect and that's what creates the systems. And I'm in the grant work that I do, I create a lot of programs, like it's doing program development and grant writing go hand in hand. And it's doing program development around like the innovation of if not prisons, then what? And why I started my business was I wanted to be able to have something to point to, like if not prisons, then look at those 30 amazing, brilliant clients that I had this year.

Jennie (01:12:16.78)
Yeah.

Emily Blake (01:12:41.599)
that are doing incredible work to end mass incarceration and create systems of care that are much more conducive to helping people never go back to a life that, you know, is harmful to them and community. And it, it, it, it's the best.

Papa Rick (01:13:03.748)
Good work, good work. Making the world a better place.

Jennie (01:13:04.461)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:13:08.194)
I love it, I love it. My dad says, you're making the world a better place.

Emily Blake (01:13:14.015)
me on here crying again, you know?

Jennie (01:13:16.414)
Yeah, I always, I'm a crier too. I...

Yes. Okay. This has been amazing. I don't, I always hate having to cut us off and end things. But we are, we're at our, over our hour. But Emily, this has been absolutely beautiful. I think that what you're doing is, is absolutely world changing. Especially for the population that you're serving that needs

that needs these services, that needs this community that's lacking in their lives, because there are so many of us who just don't have that community and who end up going it alone. And community is one of your values. It's one of mine, it's one of ours here at Relational Parenting. We talk about getting parents the support that they need, parents deserving to...

have their cups filled to sharing community with one another in order to show up as the best version of themselves, to eliminate the guilt and shame of parenting and to offer the skills to fill the cup to be able to create the family that they dream of. And so I just so appreciate what you're doing and for you being here today to share it with our audience.

Papa Rick (01:14:45.21)
Yes.

Emily Blake (01:14:45.919)
Thank you so much for the time. And I think people talk about it takes a village to raise kids, right? And so Kentopia is really insulating people and building that village. And so I hope a lot of people will be inspired and will donate to the crowdfunding campaign and stay in touch and all of their feedback ideas. Like, you know, businesses aren't built just one person. So I also want to lean into community of folks that are, of your listeners that are

Jennie (01:15:04.291)
Yes.

Emily Blake (01:15:15.391)
inspired by this. Please keep in touch.

Jennie (01:15:18.346)
Yeah, reach out. Emily will put all of your links in the show notes where they can find you, where they can reach out for the crowdfunding campaign, where they could get in touch with you, offer their ideas or ask questions as well. And yeah, all right. Well.

Emily Blake (01:15:36.607)
Yay. Thank you, Jenny and Rick.

Jennie (01:15:41.622)
Thank you. All right, happy parenting and good luck out there everybody.

Papa Rick (01:15:42.844)
Thank you.