The Relational Parenting Podcast

Jennie:
Everything looks good there. I'm going to do that. All right. Welcome back to the Relational Parenting Podcast. We are on episode 27. This week we had to switch things around a little bit. We were supposed to have a guest episode this week, but our guest had some unforeseen... conflicts and so we have rescheduled her for a new date. So this week will be an extra dad and Papa Rick and Jenny episode. And this week we are doing a parent write in email. And a while ago I was sending out my newsletter, my weekly newsletter, which by the way, if you are not on that, go sign up at the links in the description. the show notes, sign up for the newsletter every week to keep abreast of all the new things happening. But I sent this newsletter out a little while back and I asked the question to parents, what is your most hurtful childhood memory? And, you know, and I think I even what is something that your parents did repeatedly that you look back on now and remember how hurtful it was? That maybe in the moment it just felt like the norm, but you look back on it now and know like, that really hurt me or that really affected me in this way. And one of the moms replied, and so I'm gonna read that email and then we're going to dive into it. So, my second vivid memory was my mom just walking out the door when things at home got to be too much. It started when I was a preteen. It got the attention of my dad, my siblings, and I. As minutes and hours would go by, the wondering if she would come back kicked in. Then the anxiety of having to get in the van and go out, drive around, and find where she walked off to or the side of the road she was still walking on, and pick her up and bring her home. She kept that up until I was 20. When she did it yet again in our new location, we had just moved to the central part of Phoenix, Arizona. My younger brother and I, who was the eldest, said, enough, it wasn't right or safe. This whole walking out when you are overwhelmed, that was our final and last time picking her up when she ran. We wouldn't do it anymore, and we didn't. And then she goes on and says, gosh, after I became a mom of two boys, a toddler, extremely strong-willed, like my younger brother was, I got it. When I had an opportunity to sit down with my mom and ask about the why behind her just walking out the door so many times as I grew up, in that moment, I was able to hear and see her, not as my mom, but as a fellow young mom struggling back then and not having the tools I have today. or even the support to handle parenthood and tough situations as they came up daily. It was a pivotal and healing conversation that began for both of us. Jenny, thank you for your question that gave me pause this week. And then she signs off. And so there's so much in this snippet of a story from this woman's life and childhood and then her later conversation with the mother that would do this repeated behavior that hurt her so much and had her feelings so abandoned when she was a kid. And then when she became a mom, looking back on it being like, I understand. I get that feeling, you know, now, now that I'm a mom, now that I struggle, now that I get overwhelmed, now that I don't know what's next or, you know, what thing is gonna be thrown at me today in parenting. And to have that healing conversation with her mom, I'm just so happy that she was able to have that conversation and start, you know, open a dialogue to discussing. some of those things that were hurtful in her childhood. And for her to be able to approach it from a place of understanding instead of a place of accusation, I think is key as well. What was your kind of initial reaction when you read this email?

Papa Rick:
I always look at this kind of stuff as, you know, as it depends. It's hard to know why her mom walked out, and it always depends. exactly what was going on. Her mom's memory may be faulty. All right. If the... sorry. You know, if everybody's... When I listen to people recount or if I'm in situations like that, it all depends on goodwill and honesty and, you know, are assuming everybody's working towards a resolution, that's fine. If there's sometimes in life you run into people who are looking for trouble. And if that's the case, then maybe, you know. If her husband was alcoholic and going to beat her up or something, then that might be a good time to take leave of the situation.

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
I'm always looking for the problem with what happened in the situation. So that leads

Jennie:
Right,

Papa Rick:
to

Jennie:
what

Papa Rick:
over

Jennie:
causes

Papa Rick:
analysis

Jennie:
the behavior.

Papa Rick:
sometimes. Yeah. But assuming at face value. I remember having that situation in my life a few times and that's no fun. And I can only imagine what it was like as a kid, let alone as the adult. You know, the first thought is don't do anything to your kids. You're not going to be comfortable explaining to them when they're grown up

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
would be a good little blurb to keep in your mind. It's like, how am I, which gets back to our relational and. You know, slow down. My approach in those situations is always to slow down. Whoa! I'm not drinking. If somebody's upset with me, it's like I didn't intentionally do anything to you. What's going on? Did I accidentally do something to you? Let's slow down. Because people don't think straight when they're upset, right? So that's not the time to figure stuff out. Um, so my, my thought when I was reading this was, yeah, been there, done that. Um, hard to know, you know, yeah,

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
that's, yeah, that's perfectly normal. And I probably did that to my kids a few times and no crap. And, uh, how are you?

Jennie:
Well, and we don't have a perfect context, right? We just have this, this parent just shared this quick snippet story with me. So we don't know, I emailed back and forth with her, I responded to this email and thanked her and whatnot. And I didn't receive any other information that made it sound like there was some big issue. It was just like her mom would get overwhelmed with life, with, you know, maybe their, the siblings were fighting or maybe she and her husband were having a tiff or there was just so much going on that she just had, she just would get, you know, or maybe they weren't helping her enough. You know, she was asking

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
for them to do chores or help and everyone was just ignoring her and she would just walk out and need space and fresh air. And You know, we have, we don't have enough context. But what I want to pull out of this is that everyone gets overwhelmed or frustrated or pissed off or stuck in a place where we can't, oh my God, I keep dropping this thing

Papa Rick:
What is that? Did you

Jennie:
where

Papa Rick:
cut?

Jennie:
we can't, my mouse, or we get stuck. We just need space. We just need to be with ourselves. We just need to go like. detox, come down,

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
get away from whatever energy is bothering us in the house, go get fresh air, go for a walk. Like it can be as simple as this is my coping skill and this is the only way I know how to cope. And to me, regardless of what's happening, what happened, what triggered her when she would walk out, like whatever the cause was or whatever the trigger was, it's clear to me that this mom was getting to a point. she was going past her threshold of discomfort.

Papa Rick:
Yep.

Jennie:
And then her go-to lizard brain, I feel like I've lost control, coping mechanism is I need to get out in a way and go just simmer down or think or be by myself. And that could have come from a place of, I'm gonna flip my lid and I don't wanna do that to my family or my kids. Or it could be from a place of, you are all pissing me off and I want to get away from you. It could

Papa Rick:
Mm-hmm.

Jennie:
be, you know, it could be well intentioned. Our coping

Papa Rick:
It's

Jennie:
skills,

Papa Rick:
ending the escalation. Yeah.

Jennie:
right. She's, and she's, and she's going,

Papa Rick:
I gotta get out of here.

Jennie:
and it could, and it's like, and that's like a self-regulation tool, right? But. What I wanna pull out of that, one, is that, is not demonizing this mother's coping skill that she has, but two, offering a way to use our coping skills that do not harm our relationships with our children and our families and our partners.

Papa Rick:
There you go.

Jennie:
Because just

Papa Rick:
Things

Jennie:
walking

Papa Rick:
you don't have

Jennie:
out

Papa Rick:
to

Jennie:
the

Papa Rick:
explain.

Jennie:
door dramatically and not... back then not having a cell phone where you could communicate, let people know what time you were going to come back, not knowing where you were going, scaring your children with zero communication, zero whatever.

Papa Rick:
Yeah,

Jennie:
That

Papa Rick:
that abandonment

Jennie:
all,

Papa Rick:
thing is not great.

Jennie:
yeah, that all results in abandonment. And so those kids, even though that was not your intention as the parent, that is the effect. that action has on people who rely on you. And when you have people who rely on you, people who love you, people who care about you, and you simply disappear all of a sudden without discussion, communication, safety, then those children are gonna grow up with abandonment being a coping mechanism, an okay coping mechanism, and also hurt. and

Papa Rick:
This

Jennie:
disconnect

Papa Rick:
is what mom and

Jennie:
from

Papa Rick:
dad

Jennie:
you.

Papa Rick:
did or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

Jennie:
Um, now this woman, this mom was able to, to later in life, talk to her mom about it. Um, she was also, sounds like when she was in her older teens, she was able to tell her mom like, we're not going to come get you anymore and set a boundary. Right? Cause once you've been hurt that many times or whatever, you get frustrated, fed up and you, and you set a boundary. It sounds like she did that at some point.

Papa Rick:
when she

Jennie:
Um,

Papa Rick:
was 20, which is well on. Yeah.

Jennie:
And yeah, and she and her brother said that they were like, this is enough, this isn't right, and we're not gonna come get you anymore if you keep doing this.

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
And...

Papa Rick:
So that's setting a boundary. So that's, that's a healthy thing. Hey, that's enough of that, mom, you know, but they, it's hard, it's hard for a 12 year old or a four year old to do that.

Jennie:
Right, right. And... So yeah, so overwhelm. Overwhelm is, I think, the most common theme in parenting in life for all of us. We all, it's like, we're all trying to carry so many things, but especially for parents, it's constant. Because not only are you trying to keep yourself alive, trying to keep a household running, trying to pay the bills, trying to put food on the table, trying to shower regularly.

Papa Rick:
get complicated.

Jennie:
Like,

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
you know, then you're like, oh, my children also need a shower and my children also have laundry and my children also need to eat well. My children also need to get to school on time. And like you go from managing one life to managing multiple lives. And if you have a parenting partner, then you're... co-managing your lives together. And there's a lot to keep track of and a lot.

Papa Rick:
There's an aspect there too of there are people, you have to, you have to lower your expectations for managing things. You know, if you're, if you're really needing everything just so, and you've got three kids running around getting toys, you know, just living life and, uh, that you're training to not leave clothes laying around, not leave, not getting toys out and, and putting them back when they're done and all that. I think a lot of that leads to overwhelm in this. You have to adjust your expectations

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
to avoid, and you have to take measures to avoid overwhelm in this. I mean, obviously you don't want to live in a pile of dirt, but the more control you expect to exercise over a more complicated environment, the less, the more easily overwhelmed you're going to become. is the way

Jennie:
Yeah,

Papa Rick:
I think about it.

Jennie:
the

Papa Rick:
You

Jennie:
more-

Papa Rick:
know, it's much busier, much more complicated. You got to relax through it a little bit.

Jennie:
Yeah. And that's definitely one coping skill that I would get behind is what can you take off of your plate? Where are you torturing yourself with things that you don't need to be in control of, that you can let go

Papa Rick:
Yeah,

Jennie:
of in

Papa Rick:
expectations,

Jennie:
order to

Papa Rick:
other people expectations

Jennie:
lower

Papa Rick:
too.

Jennie:
your overwhelm? But overwhelm is so, it's so common. And so I want to talk about you know, the different ways that overwhelm shows up. And I wanna talk about the different ways that we abandon when we allow overwhelm to rule our lives, the different ways that we abandon our relationships with our children because we hit our threshold instead of mitigating our threshold before we get that far. And

Papa Rick:
Exactly.

Jennie:
so my question, my first question to you is, What were some of your coping skills as a parent with three children that you can look back now and kind of go, oh, I wish I'd done that better. Oh, I wish I'd handled that better or had this tool that I know now exists.

Papa Rick:
Yeah. So I'm, uh, I'm a pretty quiet, uh, I'm, I, I think of myself as being pretty easy going, but I, I do kind of expect order and quiet. I, I'm a left to my, I'm pretty okay by myself. Um, I'm okay socializing too, but I just don't like a lot of hubbub all around me. So that's what I end up escaping from. If I can't get the general level of commotion around me, I'm ADHD, you know, and if I'm in a situation where there's just too much commotion,

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
I tend to gravitate away from that or it's like, hey, let's get the commotion under control here. And okay, now everybody's functioning, things are good. Okay, now we can go ahead. Teaching Sunday school, that's a challenge, you know, because you've got 20 kids that don't belong to you.

Jennie:
Right?

Papa Rick:
Right? Bunch of small children. That's not a great place if you're not wild about commotion.

Jennie:
Right? Or if you can't be that like, like Zen out through it. I feel like noise,

Papa Rick:
And so that's what.

Jennie:
you and I have a noise sensitivity in common. I've had to

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
overcome a lot of noise triggers, but anyway, keep going.

Papa Rick:
I've talked to people who had a friend who was addicted to gambling, had to have herself barred from casinos. And I was like, why? What's up with that? And she says there was something about going into a casino with all the lights and the bells and the commotion and stuff. It's like a drug. You know, some people are

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
just sucked into that.

Jennie:
They're

Papa Rick:
Somehow

Jennie:
made

Papa Rick:
that

Jennie:
that

Papa Rick:
overrides.

Jennie:
way. It's like social media,

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
the flashing lights and the, it drowns

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
out whatever bullshit you're dealing with in your life. And it just

Papa Rick:
Something.

Jennie:
takes

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
over all your senses and you can just be there and have fun and sign off. Like,

Papa Rick:
And forget about it. It's a distraction

Jennie:
yeah.

Papa Rick:
then I guess,

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
you know? And so that's, I'm kind of the opposite. I like going to a carnival and trying to beat the game. So they can't screw up a BB gun so bad. I can't knock that star out of that piece of paper. You know, it's a competitive thing.

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
But the, you know, but then after that, it's like, you know, when I walk out of the, we'd go to a little town, small town carnival or something like that. We'd walk out of those and I'd go like. Who am I? You know, all that. I'm glad all that carny music and stuff that I had enough of that.

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
So what I do is slow down. What I kind

Jennie:
overstimulated.

Papa Rick:
of clamp down. I try to be a take a breath, master my own nervous system.

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
Okay, we got some commotion going on here. What do we do next? I try to and I'm probably over rational. I try to, you know, I get I think through it. and get calm and calm everybody else down. Cause whenever, when, when two people aren't calm, well, that's when everybody gets to just yak and pointlessly at one another. You know, I don't know if I learned that young, but it's like, yeah, there's no point if we're, if we're all upset, there's absolutely no point in anybody saying a word cause it's just going to be

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
everybody calm down, get a grip and then we'll talk about what the problem is and we'll go in it. So that kind of leads to timeouts and stuff for me. Or one thing I remember being taught was to set an appointment. Okay. We're all upset now. There's commotion now. Let's just get away from this. You know, let's wait for this to be done and then we'll set an appointment for the future, you know, to say, let's go talk

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
about this. Let's go talk about this tomorrow. You know, let's two o'clock tomorrow. What are you doing two o'clock tomorrow? Let's talk about this tomorrow after everybody's adrenaline has drained off. You know,

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
or whatever it takes. Um, that all, you know, the caveat there is that assumes everybody has good will. Nobody's being vindictive, you know, and is going to be willing to talk about that's, that's assume everybody's being a nice guy.

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
Um, when there's, if someone proves over and over and over, they are not being honest, I have to admit, or they are not being authentic, you know, and operating in good faith. goodwill, then I tend to go, well, OK, that's enough of that. I'm not sure I have a real good way to deal with that other than I guess it's defensive. Cut it off. It's like, well, we need to eliminate this influence from our life because it's not

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
healthy. So.

Jennie:
I've definitely experienced,

Papa Rick:
Took me a long time to learn that.

Jennie:
I definitely have experienced, like remember experiencing, like if me and one of my brothers were in an argument or we were, like there was, there were obvious things where like we were in the, you know, you for a long time telecommuted, worked from home in the basement

Papa Rick:
Those were

Jennie:
in your

Papa Rick:
great

Jennie:
office

Papa Rick:
years.

Jennie:
and we would

Papa Rick:
Those

Jennie:
come

Papa Rick:
were

Jennie:
down

Papa Rick:
great.

Jennie:
and, you know, be too rambunctious, too loud. We would interrupt you or whatever. And I remember you opening the door sometimes and being like, if you open this door and someone's not bleeding, I'm going to make sure one of you is or whatever, you know, like one of those

Papa Rick:
Yep.

Jennie:
silly

Papa Rick:
I was trying to conduct

Jennie:
threats.

Papa Rick:
business

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
where I shouldn't have.

Jennie:
And so we would either get quieter, we would leave and go outside or whatever. But I also remember if we were fighting or anything, and I even remember this into like early adulthood. we would get into it, you know, Nathan and I would get into an argument in your presence.

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
And instead of letting us figure our shit out, you would cut us off and try to like mediate and take over and make it stop.

Papa Rick:
That's

Jennie:
You

Papa Rick:
right.

Jennie:
like you

Papa Rick:
You

Jennie:
needed

Papa Rick:
guys are

Jennie:
it

Papa Rick:
not

Jennie:
to

Papa Rick:
fixing

Jennie:
stop

Papa Rick:
this.

Jennie:
now.

Papa Rick:
I'm involved. Now we're going to, now I'm going to

Jennie:
Well,

Papa Rick:
figure

Jennie:
you

Papa Rick:
it

Jennie:
weren't

Papa Rick:
out.

Jennie:
involved, like you were just in the room. You weren't involved,

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
you were just there. And it was like, you couldn't stand

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
the overstimulation of the argument. And so you had to make it stop. And so you would take over and control the situation and make it

Papa Rick:
I

Jennie:
stop.

Papa Rick:
would let you go for a while, but when it gets, when I would hear you guys hurling insults at one another, when it became un counterproductive or unproductive, it's like,

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
okay, that's enough of that. That's not how that I was trying to teach you. That's not how that's not a good way to do it. Go calm down

Jennie:
Right.

Papa Rick:
and offer once it once again, my, my teaching did not always come across as teaching it came across as, that's enough of that crap too, but mostly I was trying

Jennie:
Yeah,

Papa Rick:
to teach.

Jennie:
well, and it came, because you're also a human being who has discomfort levels and overwhelm and overstimulation. And if, you know, it can be both, it can be, I'm overstimulated and don't want to listen to this anymore. And

Papa Rick:
Yeah,

Jennie:
also

Papa Rick:
yeah.

Jennie:
you guys aren't being productive. And so I'm going to step in because that's what you felt like was the right thing to do in that moment.

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
But I also remember there were times when It wasn't a verbal argument. I actually have a very distinct memory of this. Nathan and I would wrestle.

Papa Rick:
Oh yeah.

Jennie:
We would wrestle, we would have these brawling, we weren't punching each other or anything, but we would just wrestle and try to pin each other down

Papa Rick:
Test

Jennie:
and stuff.

Papa Rick:
of will, yeah.

Jennie:
And as long as no one was screaming, crying

Papa Rick:
Hahaha

Jennie:
and getting hurt, you were just like, do that all day. You had no

Papa Rick:
Knock yourselves

Jennie:
problem with

Papa Rick:
out.

Jennie:
that. because

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
we weren't, it wasn't loud and we weren't talking and we weren't, yeah. So you

Papa Rick:
You

Jennie:
have

Papa Rick:
weren't

Jennie:
an

Papa Rick:
hurting

Jennie:
audio.

Papa Rick:
each other. You weren't saying

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
hurtful things. You weren't being unkind. You, you know, I had a thing about you guys calling each other ugly or stupid or calling

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
each other names. Now we're not doing that, you know? And so I would put an end to things. You guys, sometimes you'd wrestle like kittens. I always thought that was the cutest thing in the world. You'd wrestle like kittens sometimes playfully. And other times you were like mountain lions. It was

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
like, I'm going to kill you quietly over here.

Jennie:
But I remember

Papa Rick:
I remember,

Jennie:
you.

Papa Rick:
I remember being in the apartment, you pouncing on Nathan once in his, in his bed. It actually, you guys ended up actually collapsing the fold up springs on a futon bed. I had, you were re you know, you were like coming home from college or something and he had seen

Jennie:
I was gonna say we

Papa Rick:
you.

Jennie:
were old at

Papa Rick:
It

Jennie:
that

Papa Rick:
was just

Jennie:
point,

Papa Rick:
adorable.

Jennie:
but you're still wrestling.

Papa Rick:
Yeah, it was adorable.

Jennie:
I remember I would wake him up, I would wake him up in the mornings cause he wouldn't get up till like super late in the day. And I would go in there at like 10 a.m.

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
fed up with waiting for him to

Papa Rick:
And

Jennie:
get

Papa Rick:
he had

Jennie:
up.

Papa Rick:
a room that had like no windows. It was like a cave,

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
you know, it was

Jennie:
And I

Papa Rick:
dark

Jennie:
would just go

Papa Rick:
so

Jennie:
in there

Papa Rick:
he could

Jennie:
and jump on him and wake him up.

Papa Rick:
I kind of, I tolerated things until they weren't healthy was my

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
goal. When it got to, if there were, you know, it's okay to be pissed off, but you can't call each other names. You can't, you know, this has to be not toxic or I will intervene. Go find another way to do it. And I would try to teach a healthier way to do it, but yeah, I would shut things down sometimes, maybe too soon. I don't know, with little kids, I like to let little kids duke it out, you know, but when you start getting 10, 12, somebody's liable to pick up a brick or something, you know,

Jennie:
Right?

Papa Rick:
you gotta teach healthy.

Jennie:
So, so I definitely. I find myself doing one of two things when I'm in auto reactive mode. So when I get into a disagreement with husband, I either take the hyper rational route where it's like, everybody just needs to calm the fuck down. Nothing is that serious. Here's what we're going to do.

Papa Rick:
I think that drives people crazy sometimes.

Jennie:
Oh, it drives him nuts.

Papa Rick:
Yeah,

Jennie:
Um...

Papa Rick:
I don't know what that is, but it drives, I know I drive people crazy sometimes being too calm.

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
clamping down. Okay.

Jennie:
Well, there's also like a hyper focus in ADHD. We either cannot focus on anything or we can only focus on one thing.

Papa Rick:
laser. Yeah.

Jennie:
We're good in emergencies because that's something extremely interesting that we can hyper focus on and we know

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
exactly what we need to do and we can think through it

Papa Rick:
Yeah,

Jennie:
really fast.

Papa Rick:
that's true.

Jennie:
In chaotic situations, a lot of people… Especially if you don't already have a brain that pings everywhere all of the time. When chaos occurs, people with neurotypical brains don't always

Papa Rick:
Mm-hmm.

Jennie:
respond as well or as calmly to chaos. But we're used to chaos

Papa Rick:
Yeah,

Jennie:
because it lives

Papa Rick:
yeah.

Jennie:
inside of us.

Papa Rick:
Ooh,

Jennie:
So when there's chaos

Papa Rick:
that's

Jennie:
out

Papa Rick:
interesting.

Jennie:
here, we can go, everybody calm down. Nothing like this is just chaos. What's everyone freaking out for?

Papa Rick:
Yeah,

Jennie:
You don't

Papa Rick:
that's

Jennie:
live

Papa Rick:
right.

Jennie:
in this every day.

Papa Rick:
I

Jennie:
This

Papa Rick:
hadn't

Jennie:
is

Papa Rick:
thought

Jennie:
what

Papa Rick:
about

Jennie:
my

Papa Rick:
it

Jennie:
everyday

Papa Rick:
that way.

Jennie:
feels like. Like everybody just

Papa Rick:
I had

Jennie:
chill.

Papa Rick:
a, I had a neighbor expanding his house once and he had dug a whole new foundation, this whole four or five, six feet deep and poured concrete and done all the forms himself and, you know, wired it all up and then, then there was a crowd, a cement truck showed up and, and a crowd formed to watch the ceremony as they filled the forms up with concrete. And he was down in the hole, of course, supervising. I was going, I don't know if that's a good idea, but okay.

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
And the, and the forums went, and it wasn't, it wasn't like a creek. It was like a couple of, you know, that started to let go on one side on, on his side. And I remember maybe I was ready for it or something, but I was moving and had a hand down and was dragging him out and looked around and everybody was just standing there. Everybody was just standing. Everybody else was just standing there,

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
you know, and it's like, man, you got to move.

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
You got to be ready.

Jennie:
Yeah. Well, so.

Papa Rick:
So yeah, that thing in the, the good in the emergency, that's pro, I wonder if it's,

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
if that's true of ADHD people, because they're not distracted by the chaos.

Jennie:
Well, so. So I find myself, so back to coping mechanisms, you talked about yours

Papa Rick:
Yeah, sorry.

Jennie:
and I have that one in common with you and it's something that I have to work on mitigating and approaching differently.

Papa Rick:
the hyper rational thing.

Jennie:
The hyper-rational and like kind of taking charge when... It's not necessarily necessary.

Papa Rick:
Hmm.

Jennie:
It feels like it, because to me, it's like everything's out of control. You're freaking out. Everything is fine. And this is how I'm going to make everything OK. And so it feels like I need to take control because you're not in control.

Papa Rick:
head pain. I'll

Jennie:
And

Papa Rick:
take

Jennie:
then,

Papa Rick:
care of this.

Jennie:
yeah, but maybe not in such a condescending way. And.

Papa Rick:
That's the thing. But that's kind of how it comes. When you get hyper rational and I'm going to come in and I'm going to swoop in and I'm going to fix

Jennie:
That's what

Papa Rick:
this,

Jennie:
it feels like to other people. Yeah,

Papa Rick:
that's kind of the...

Jennie:
that's not our intention, but that's

Papa Rick:
Yeah,

Jennie:
what it feels

Papa Rick:
no, I get

Jennie:
like.

Papa Rick:
that.

Jennie:
But my other

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
coping mechanism is very similar to the one in this story, which is that if things get too out of control, I feel so overwhelmed with discomfort in a conversation and a hard conversation, or I'm simply... I've hit my threshold and I need to get out and I need to go scream in the car or sing at the top of my lungs or whatever it is that I need to go do to regulate. My nervous system has hit its threshold. I can no longer handle being in the same room with you and I must leave now. That is, that's a coping skill. That's a coping mechanism. That's a, you know, the goal in any argument is to never for things to not ever escalate to that point.

Papa Rick:
That's

Jennie:
But

Papa Rick:
right.

Jennie:
when they do, I either get hyper rational or if things are too out of control, I've hit my threshold, then my coping skill is to go get in my car.

Papa Rick:
Hmm,

Jennie:
Both of

Papa Rick:
escape.

Jennie:
those things

Papa Rick:
Yeah,

Jennie:
come from

Papa Rick:
distance.

Jennie:
a place of reestablishing safety, calming myself down, regulating, doing what I need to do to feel normal and safe again. But the effect that action has when it is, when I just do it with no communication, I just leave. I just grab my shit and go.

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
And especially if there were children in the house and I did that,

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
that is abandonment. And...

Papa Rick:
Not the best coping skill with little kids wondering where lunch is, yeah.

Jennie:
Right. And so there's, so that those, those two things are like the ends of my spectrum. Those are like extremes, right? Those are not

Papa Rick:
Yeah,

Jennie:
happening

Papa Rick:
yeah.

Jennie:
constantly and

Papa Rick:
Bell

Jennie:
regularly,

Papa Rick:
curve.

Jennie:
but they have, when things get super chaotic or frustrating or overwhelming or whatever, those are kind of the go-to coping mechanisms. And so there's this very literal abandonment that we that we can do to our partners or to our children. And then there's a coming back, coming back together, repair, maybe they're apologizing for getting big and scary and mad, and you're apologizing for neglecting or abandoning. But those things require repair and discussion and the attempt, you know, the future attempt at not doing that again. But with children, a lot of times, it's not so black and white as... one of you, one of the parents walks out. There are lots of ways that we. cause the feeling of abandonment in our day-to-day lives with our children. And that can, it's emotional and mental abandonment versus physical abandonment. You know, CPS will come if you abandon your kids on the side of the road or disappear for three days and don't change their diapers or feed them. And so we often look at that as like, well, I'm not doing that. My children are cared for and safe. And yes, they are physically safe. Are they mentally and emotionally safe though? Are you,

Papa Rick:
Yeah, emotional

Jennie:
are you,

Papa Rick:
abuse different than physical abuse.

Jennie:
and not even abuse, but neglect. Emotional and mental neglect is the cancer of parenting today because

Papa Rick:
So I'd put the

Jennie:
it's

Papa Rick:
continue.

Jennie:
invisible, because it's invisible. So we know physical abuse is wrong. We know physical neglect is wrong. We know sexual abuse is wrong. We know, like we know purposeful physical harm is wrong. Pretty much everybody knows that,

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
right?

Papa Rick:
It's easy to prove in court too. It's

Jennie:
Right,

Papa Rick:
visible

Jennie:
and you can prove it

Papa Rick:
physically.

Jennie:
because it's in the physical

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
world, but emotional and mental wellness, health, abandonment, abuse is invisible. And so that's much harder. to prove, it's also much harder to catch in yourself. It's much harder to identify

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
unless you have studied

Papa Rick:
It's

Jennie:
these things.

Papa Rick:
hard to know it's being done to you if you've never experienced back to that first time thing,

Jennie:
Right, well,

Papa Rick:
it's

Jennie:
and children,

Papa Rick:
hard to realize it's happening

Jennie:
yeah.

Papa Rick:
to you, whether you're a

Jennie:
If

Papa Rick:
kid

Jennie:
it's been

Papa Rick:
or an

Jennie:
normal

Papa Rick:
adult that's never

Jennie:
your

Papa Rick:
experienced

Jennie:
whole life.

Papa Rick:
it. Yeah.

Jennie:
So. So some of the ways that we do this, either to one another or to our children, is by dissociation, disconnecting from reality. We stared our phones 12 hours a day. And I'm not talking about like, oh, I took a 15 minute break and added some stuff to my Amazon shopping cart, or my kids were watching a movie, so I scrolled on Instagram for 10 minutes. I'm not talking about

Papa Rick:
in

Jennie:
taking

Papa Rick:
time.

Jennie:
breaks. not talking about

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
taking breaks, take breaks. I'm talking about repetitive patterns of your children trying to get your attention and you're on your phone going, uh-huh, uh-huh.

Papa Rick:
or TV

Jennie:
That's so cool,

Papa Rick:
or

Jennie:
uh-huh.

Papa Rick:
anything.

Jennie:
Or TV or

Papa Rick:
Screens, yeah. Computer.

Jennie:
dinner, you know, I'm cooking dinner, uh-huh, yeah, whatever, yeah, uh-huh. But giving this like, It's like half attention. You're giving half-hearted attention. And your children are trying to tell you a story or share something or this or that. And again, I'm not talking about you are constantly making perfect eye contact with your kids and

Papa Rick:
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehe hehehe hehehe hehehe he

Jennie:
always listening to every single little thing that they say. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about being a present parent requires you to put down your phone, put down what you're. doing, end your work day, whatever it might be, compartmentalize the things that you are focused on so that there are hours in your day where you are giving your full attention and energy to your children. You are

Papa Rick:
Yeah,

Jennie:
listening

Papa Rick:
prioritize.

Jennie:
to their stories. You are answering their questions. You are, you know, and I know, I know you've got to get four kids in the car and you've got to get two of them to soccer practice and two of them to dance. And you've got to. put in the directions and everyone wants to listen to different music in the car and there's going to be chaos.

Papa Rick:
Yep. Yeah.

Jennie:
That is what it is. And learning some coping skills to navigate those moments in time are going to do nothing but benefit you. And they're going to benefit the lifespan of your children. But what I'm talking about here is that we get so caught up in overwhelm and chaos that we don't just give 100% of our focus. to our children when we are playing, we're checking our phones. When we are cooking, we're checking our phones. When we are working from home, but trying to like take a break with our kids, it's like, then take the break. Take the 10 minutes when you're throwing the ball, when you're running around in the backyard, when you're just talking to your kid, like your phone stays in your office, your whatever, because when you come out and you imply to your child, They, I'm on a break, let's do something real quick. But then you're checking your phone every five seconds. Your child can feel that. Your child feels you not being fully present with them. And

Papa Rick:
Not

Jennie:
it feels

Papa Rick:
being there. Be here

Jennie:
terrible.

Papa Rick:
now. Yep.

Jennie:
Because I can think of a hundred times that I've been telling a friend a story or telling my partner a story or, you know, whatever. And they're like, yeah, tell me. And then they're like doing this at the same time. And I'm like,

Papa Rick:
Mm-hmm.

Jennie:
I really don't want to tell you because you're not actually hearing me. You're not actually listening. Like it's a waste of my energy.

Papa Rick:
That's right.

Jennie:
You're

Papa Rick:
That's

Jennie:
not giving

Papa Rick:
a life

Jennie:
me your

Papa Rick:
skill.

Jennie:
energy. Yeah.

Papa Rick:
Yep.

Jennie:
It's, it's.

Papa Rick:
You meet somebody, you say, Hey, let's, let's go have lunch. And they're late and they're late because of something trivial. I don't know. I was what I had to watch something. I had to finish watching something or I had to finish listening to a song. And what you're doing is announcing your priorities. You know, it's like, Oh, okay. So that's how important I am.

Jennie:
or they're

Papa Rick:
That's

Jennie:
not

Papa Rick:
fine.

Jennie:
apologetic. Like, oh,

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
I knew I was gonna be late and I just didn't tell you.

Papa Rick:
Yeah, that's right.

Jennie:
I've had very nonchalant people

Papa Rick:
We reveal ourselves.

Jennie:
be like, oh yeah, work ran late, sorry. And I'm like, I've been sitting here for 30 minutes looking for a phone call or a text from you. You had a 30 minute drive, you knew you were gonna be late. At what point were you going to let me know and value my time? Like, and it's exactly what you said. It's like, you're so...

Papa Rick:
And you have to,

Jennie:
caught up.

Papa Rick:
and it's hard. Yeah. Cause you're in that,

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
I mean, you've got kids once you have kids. It's a game. It's a game changer. And I don't think, uh, people are as, I mean, people used to grow up and get out of high school expecting to, you know, get married, get a job, get married and have kids and do that thing. And there's so much, there are so many more distractions from

Jennie:
Yeah,

Papa Rick:
that now,

Jennie:
yeah.

Papa Rick:
you know, the slow. The slow destruction of civilization. You know, everybody's got their nose, people walking around with their noses and their phones falling in holes and running into things and the,

Jennie:
Car

Papa Rick:
the

Jennie:
wrecks.

Papa Rick:
number of distractions are crazy. Yeah. Texting. That's right.

Jennie:
texting

Papa Rick:
And so

Jennie:
while driving,

Papa Rick:
part of the, part of

Jennie:
yeah.

Papa Rick:
the skill is don't get to the, you know, anytime you're coping, something you said a little bit ago, I've, I've realized at some point that if I was coping. something had happened before that where I needed to cope. So the goal became to not really to need to cope any more than necessary. Sometimes happens. Sometimes it happens. Hey, we got to get the tribe to grandma's for Sunday dinner or whatever, which doesn't

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
happen that much anymore. Okay. That's a, that's a chore. Moving a tribe is a chore, you know, is work and you got to focus on it. You can't do that and keep up with. YouTube or Facebook or anything. You have to commit back to simplify, you know, and that's really what it gets down to, simplify

Jennie:
And even

Papa Rick:
and prioritize.

Jennie:
mindset, like you just said, you said getting the tribe to grandmas is a chore. Now,

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
that is one way to look at it. And if that's how someone feels about it, it's not untrue. And... One way to not have to constantly cope is to stop looking at everything as a negative thing. Just because it's

Papa Rick:
It's

Jennie:
going

Papa Rick:
a...

Jennie:
to require all of your attention

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
to make this thing happen doesn't mean it's a chore. It's just a thing where, okay, I need to focus on this thing. And that's the only thing I can focus on right now. And

Papa Rick:
and

Jennie:
we

Papa Rick:
it's

Jennie:
don't

Papa Rick:
positive.

Jennie:
even have to make it positive. We can just make it turn into good or bad. We turn it into black and white thinking and we make, we assign everything. This is good. I'm enjoying this. This is bad. I'm uncomfortable and I avoid this and I go towards this. But when you, when you assign everything good or bad, you miss out on this neutral ground where most things live of simply being in

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
existence, where you could just choose to go This is what this moment looks like. And so what can I do? How am I going to choose to show up in a way that serves me, that serves my children, that serves my partner and feeds us instead of depletes us?

Papa Rick:
Exactly.

Jennie:
And that's claiming your power and stepping into an empowered parent mode. And

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
you decide and you have the choice and. Not everything is good or bad or negative or positive or whatever. And like, yes, there are real things that are a struggle that can be frustrating, but like how you show up in your presence and choice in that moment is entirely up to you.

Papa Rick:
Yeah, yeah, totally true. Totally true. It has to do with values. When I say chore, it's like, it's a lot of work to do these, to do some of these things, to make

Jennie:
But

Papa Rick:
some

Jennie:
work,

Papa Rick:
of these happen.

Jennie:
it's a lot of work. That's a neutral

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
statement. This is

Papa Rick:
Is that

Jennie:
a lot

Papa Rick:
as new as

Jennie:
of

Papa Rick:
work

Jennie:
work.

Papa Rick:
neutral? Yeah. You have to accept, Hey, I want my, I want to host the family reunion. Everybody's going to be here. It's going to be a hospital people. It's going to be a pain. You know, it's going to be a pain in the ass. which is just a way of saying, I would just as soon be sitting down watching the Steelers play, right? This is gonna be a disruption from my norm, but you have to decide when you're feeling that, maybe that's part of a coping mechanism, is you have to look at that and say, what do I value? Where am I gonna put my attention? Where am I gonna put my time? And so yes, it's an effort. It's, you know,

Jennie:
effort. Yeah.

Papa Rick:
I say it to chore, you know, as in I have to go to the well and get a bucket of water or I have to go to work or whatever, but gosh, I like to have income and I like to be able to send my kids to Disney World or buy them shoes for school or whatever. So there's the, and I would rather do that than sneak off and rob a bank and use the money and go drinking, you know, it's like, well, what do you value there?

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
You do these, life is work. You know, so far we're human beings

Jennie:
Life

Papa Rick:
and

Jennie:
is effort.

Papa Rick:
yeah,

Jennie:
Like, yeah, you

Papa Rick:
you

Jennie:
gotta

Papa Rick:
know.

Jennie:
put in effort. Like.

Papa Rick:
And there's so much time and there's so much energy. And so how are you

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
going to spend it? Is, uh, you know, it's very, it's very metaphysical when you get right down to it. Be there. I like the be present, be there now. You

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
know, am I where I want to be? The conflict really comes if you're trying to check your phone and work. And not while you're with your kids, that's a, that's a value judgment. That's a. You know, I have to do both. I'm conflicted. I'm upset because I'm trying to do two things that are not compatible here. And it's like value being with your kids. And you kind of have to say, go away to society. You know, it's, oh,

Jennie:
Uh

Papa Rick:
you're

Jennie:
huh.

Papa Rick:
not being productive. You're not working. You're not making money. You're not, you're not something else. There's, it's the conflict between the two things.

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
It's worthwhile. You know, everybody knows it's worthwhile to spend time with your kids. It's. it's harder to make the, you know, back to the daily choice. And sometimes whirlwinds happen and you just you got to, yeah, it's just a choice how you spend that time.

Jennie:
Yeah. And you can even, what we're kind of talking about here is balance, right? And so when you're

Papa Rick:
Mm-hmm.

Jennie:
on one end of the spectrum with

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
intense overwhelm, we generally tend to swing into dissociation and disconnect in order to counterbalance the overwhelm that we're feeling. Instead of regulating and setting up our lives in a way that is balanced and serves. from moment to moment, we've learned, we know ourselves, we know where to spend our energy, we know what to say no to, we know how to make pockets of time for work and pockets of time for our children and pockets of time for this and that and the other thing. But what we end up doing a lot is we get lost in the chaos, we end up way over here and overwhelmed. And in order to counterbalance it, we swing over here. to dissociation,

Papa Rick:
Mm-hmm.

Jennie:
abandonment, disappearing, disconnect.

Papa Rick:
Mm-hmm.

Jennie:
And the work is here in the middle, right? Like we always say, and I just, the example you just gave, I wanna offer to parents a simple solution. And this solution can be applied to pretty much any situation you come across. And that is simply communicating to your child. or to your partner exactly what it is you are doing and why you're doing it in this moment and then meeting the need. So if you need to be, if you are someone who works from home but you're also the primary caregiver, you know, maybe you're an entrepreneur and you started a business and you're, you're working on, you know, you're a lot of your

Papa Rick:
Hmm.

Jennie:
work takes place on

Papa Rick:
That's

Jennie:
social

Papa Rick:
a busy

Jennie:
media.

Papa Rick:
life.

Jennie:
an

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
email, but you're also home with your kid most of the time. And so you're trying to balance being on social media while your kid is playing in the park or answering a few emails while your kid is taking a nap or whatever.

Papa Rick:
Mm-hmm.

Jennie:
Being on, being two places at once or doing multiple things at once. is pretty normal these days. And so it doesn't have to be that I'm going to leave my phone at home because I'm taking my kid to the park and I have to be fully present. It can be, I've given my child one or two hours of my full attention this morning and now we're going to pack up, we're going to go do something that my child loves to do and they're going to have some independent playtime at the park with their peers at the park and I'm going to sit on the bench and get some work done. And when your child says, mommy or daddy, you know, come play with me, come chase me, come do this thing. You simply have a conversation with your child and say, I love playing with you so much. Right now. This is the time of day when mommy has to do some work and this is your opportunity. to go play with friends and have some time outside and play in the park while I get some work done. And it's as simple as that. And they go, like I've literally, I'm not saying this isn't gonna happen, especially if it's the first time you've ever had this conversation, but I've literally never had a child who I explained something so truthfully and factually to

Papa Rick:
Authentically

Jennie:
and lovingly

Papa Rick:
is my favorite word.

Jennie:
who then goes, no, play with me now. And I'm not saying that you don't have a kid that's gonna do that. You may have parented your kid into being a kid who responds that way. Who knows? The first time you try it, it may not work, but I'm saying that consistently when I've done this, the child goes, oh, okay, and runs off and plays because they're like, oh, I get to play with my friends right now. And mommy needs to do some work and that's just a fact of life and everything is neutral. There's no good or bad. It just is. And

Papa Rick:
That's right.

Jennie:
And it just, it's just, it's just plain communication and explaining things to your child. And you have now said, we played for, I gave you my full attention for a couple hours this morning. Now it's time for this part of our day, and then we're gonna have lunch, and then it's nap time, and then it's this time. And like, you teach your children that there, there are pockets of time for different things. And this, this gentle and loving explanation, teaches kids about the real world. Because I hear a lot of people are like gentle parenting, respectful parenting, all that stuff. Gentle parenting is for gentle kids. False. Gentle parenting, relational parenting, like it's all relational. We're focused on connection and the relationship and fostering,

Papa Rick:
intentional.

Jennie:
yeah, fostering intentional, like the intentional raising of children. And Just because you're gentle and loving about it doesn't mean that they're not gonna be prepared for the real world. And in fact, research has shown that it will prepare them more for the real world

Papa Rick:
Yeah,

Jennie:
when you are honest and

Papa Rick:
they'll

Jennie:
truthful

Papa Rick:
recognize

Jennie:
and loving

Papa Rick:
when people,

Jennie:
about it.

Papa Rick:
yeah, they recognize when people are taking advantage of them and, you know, back to modeling. You hit on all kinds of things there, the need for balance, the need for repetition. You know, you doing things first time doesn't often work. It takes repetition and practice and whether it's you or your child, you know, hey, I need to be more mindful. I need to be more intentional. whatever you have to do. It's not the first time you do that. It's hit and miss and you have to do it a thousand times before it gets to be a habit. Yeah.

Jennie:
So that, so.

Papa Rick:
And you can't do it all the time. That, that explaining doesn't always work either. You know, if you do that every time your child comes and wants to play, that can be too much of a, uh, of a thing. But seeking that balance, sometimes you play, sometimes you don't. You have other times to play. Time boxing is a favorite tactic of, uh, of mine. It's like, I'm going to spend an hour or 10 minutes doing this. And then you go do it. And, uh, then. then in 10 minutes I'll come play with you for a half an hour or whatever, or come do what you're doing, or we'll do that in a few minutes. I'll come get you in 10 minutes." And then they can develop, it helps them develop a sense of time too. There's all kinds of ways to handle, to get organized and keep chaos down. A lot of the stuff I've learned, I wish I knew when I was 20.

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
You know?

Jennie:
because we know it now and we didn't know it then or we didn't have access to it then like we do now with the internet and stuff.

Papa Rick:
Slow learners, yeah,

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
slow to find it.

Jennie:
But yeah, so one, I'm so grateful to this mom who wrote in about her mother and about this pattern in her childhood that really was painful for her and

Papa Rick:
Oh,

Jennie:
that she was

Papa Rick:
yeah.

Jennie:
able to have a discussion

Papa Rick:
For anybody in that

Jennie:
about

Papa Rick:
situation.

Jennie:
with her mom. And I wonder how many people listening are thinking of a thing right now that their parents did to them or... you know, a pattern that they know that they do to their children and that they're working on or trying to break. And that, you know, overwhelm and disconnect don't have to be the only solutions. We don't have to go to such extremes. If we can tap into learning healthier coping skills, ways of balancing. and communicating with our children in order to foster these healthy relationships and not have to get to a place where, you know, when you, if you're feeling overwhelmed with your kids, something like this mom, you know, she would walk out and instead feeling, if you're feeling pissed off or overwhelmed and you've got multiple children and needs and all of the things, it can be as simple as, I... you know, mommy or I, however you speak about yourself to your children, a lot of people do it in third person. That's why I do it. I am feeling very overwhelmed, very unregulated, dysregulated, very frustrated. And I need a break. I need to go take a break for myself. And then if I'm going to take a walk outside and get some fresh air and I'll be back in 20 minutes

Papa Rick:
Mm-hmm.

Jennie:
or I'm going to go in my room and close the door and turn on some music and breathe for 20 minutes, or I'm going to go for a drive and I'll be back in half an hour. You're putting, you're

Papa Rick:
Set

Jennie:
communicating

Papa Rick:
that appointment.

Jennie:
what you're doing, where you're going, that everything is safe, everyone's okay. This is where I'm going and this is when I'm coming back. So that you're not just abandoning. And everyone's like, what's wrong? What happened? Why is mom so upset? Why? Is she doing this? Like, is she coming back? When is she coming back? Are we gonna eat dinner together? Are we gonna, like, it just leaves your family or your children or your child or your spouse or your partner in complete and utter anxiety and loss. And when you are in a relationship or you are responsible for beings who are less, who are powerless against you utterly in your care, your responsibility is to make sure they feel safe, to make sure they don't feel abandoned, and to also make sure you are caring for yourself in the way that you need in that moment. And so it can be both. It doesn't have to be such an extreme. Even when it feels, everything feels really extreme in your body or in your mind, it feels urgent, it feels extreme, it feels like an emergency. Can you start to practice taking a breath, letting your family know what you need, and then going and doing that for yourself? Not making it about them, not making it about them being wrong, it's their fault, you're making me feel this way. None of that. Simply, I have hit my threshold, I feel this and I need this. I feel this and I need this, because it's not

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
about anybody else. It's about you.

Papa Rick:
You can't take care of others. You know, that's the that's an excellent point. When you're the parent, good, bad or indifferent, you're the big dog. So so you're one of the, you know, the kids take their cues

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
from you.

Jennie:
You're

Papa Rick:
And

Jennie:
the

Papa Rick:
so

Jennie:
leader.

Papa Rick:
part of, you know, if you are in an overwhelming environment, you know, and we're thinking like. Going to school and fixing lunch, you know, but what if there's a drunk guy waving a gun around or something. I mean, there's all kinds back from the bell curve.

Jennie:
Yeah, well, that's like a real emergency.

Papa Rick:
You'd

Jennie:
We're not

Papa Rick:
have

Jennie:
talking

Papa Rick:
to be able

Jennie:
about

Papa Rick:
to, you

Jennie:
that. Ha

Papa Rick:
have to, we

Jennie:
ha ha.

Papa Rick:
have to, but in any whatever situation, if you're a parent and you are on the hook, I guess I do express things negatively, but if you have a responsibility to manage the environment, including

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
yourself and give yourself, you have to be forgiving. You have to try to be calm so you can think. You know, it's not just calm for calmness sake, it's calm so that you can accomplish your mission of raising healthy, successful kids that exceed you, you know, and making the world, another good goal is making the world a better place. You know, raise kids

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
that are gonna improve the world in some way, if only by being. being decent to everybody else, teach them good habits. There's just all kinds of good reasons to regulate yourself and teach your kids to regulate. And

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
it

Jennie:
And

Papa Rick:
just goes on for generations. There's

Jennie:
we didn't

Papa Rick:
just

Jennie:
even

Papa Rick:
all kinds

Jennie:
get

Papa Rick:
of

Jennie:
to

Papa Rick:
reasons to do that.

Jennie:
the importance of setting the example. Whatever you're doing right now to cope, you're literally showing your children how to cope with stress, how to cope

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
with anxiety, how to

Papa Rick:
You

Jennie:
cope

Papa Rick:
can

Jennie:
with

Papa Rick:
talk.

Jennie:
overwhelm. So like

Papa Rick:
You

Jennie:
you,

Papa Rick:
can talk forever. What you do is what they do

Jennie:
not only

Papa Rick:
is

Jennie:
how

Papa Rick:
it's

Jennie:
your

Papa Rick:
the big,

Jennie:
actions

Papa Rick:
that's

Jennie:
are affecting,

Papa Rick:
the number one thing.

Jennie:
yeah, not only like is it important in the way that your actions are affecting them and making them feel abandoned,

Papa Rick:
Yeah.

Jennie:
making them feel neglected. like giving them anxiety, et cetera. You're also showing them that in the future or right now, how to handle overwhelm. They're just gonna lose control. They're gonna disappear. They're gonna disconnect from you. They're gonna ignore you. They're gonna like whatever, however it manifests in them is a reflection of what you're teaching them. And so you may have the power to walk out the door and go walk on your own and disappear for an hour. and have someone come look for you, but your child who's five or 10 or 12, like they're gonna go in their room and slam the door and turn on their headphones and look at their cell phone and not talk to you for three days.

Papa Rick:
Yeah. Yep. They'll

Jennie:
And that's

Papa Rick:
retreat.

Jennie:
how they're gonna

Papa Rick:
Yep.

Jennie:
cope instead of having a conversation with you and working through those feelings and developing emotional and mental resilience. Like there's, I mean,

Papa Rick:
to tolerate a little bit of discomfort

Jennie:
yeah,

Papa Rick:
and yeah,

Jennie:
yeah.

Papa Rick:
and get through it.

Jennie:
So it's not just about you and the effect that your actions are having on them right now. It's literally what you're teaching them for the rest of their life.

Papa Rick:
That's a

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
great bumper sticker. It's not just about you.

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
Which is, which that's what parents need is a lot more pressure, but you know,

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
that's, that's a good, that's a good quick thought to keep in mind.

Jennie:
Yeah. So I think we're gonna end there. We are right at an hour. But I hope that everybody listening to this one, I always get very passionate. But anyway,

Papa Rick:
kudos

Jennie:
we're...

Papa Rick:
to this lady for talking with her mom

Jennie:
Yeah, like

Papa Rick:
and

Jennie:
thank you,

Papa Rick:
doing that, healing that

Jennie:
right?

Papa Rick:
or coming back around. That's a circle of life thing. That's, you know, by the way,

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
we've talked

Jennie:
Well,

Papa Rick:
all

Jennie:
I hope

Papa Rick:
about

Jennie:
that's

Papa Rick:
this,

Jennie:
what this

Papa Rick:
but the admiration

Jennie:
podcast,

Papa Rick:
for this lady is high.

Jennie:
that's part of what we're trying to do with this podcast too is show people of multiple generations because it's not just parents and little children, it's you and me. Like I'm a child and you're a parent. You know, you had parents. Like multiple generations are still developing and changing and engaging in relationship. in the child parent dynamic. And part of this podcast, us doing this podcast together was to set an example of a parent-child adult-child to parent relationship and exploring the past and exploring past wounding or current wounding or past patterns or things that hurt me or things that you misunderstood or like whatever

Papa Rick:
We're lucky

Jennie:
and how

Papa Rick:
that

Jennie:
we

Papa Rick:
way.

Jennie:
can have. Yeah. how we can have that conversation without anybody, without arguing. And we're not perfect. We've had conversations where we do, there is a misunderstanding and we have to kind of pull it apart and pull through it. And someone's got big feelings or big wound got reopened or whatever, but that it doesn't have to be. We don't have to all be so defensive. We can just,

Papa Rick:
You

Jennie:
I

Papa Rick:
can't,

Jennie:
can appreciate you

Papa Rick:
you, yeah.

Jennie:
as a parent and what you did do for me and hold the, you can hold the space for the things you did that hurt me. You

Papa Rick:
Absolutely.

Jennie:
were a good

Papa Rick:
That's

Jennie:
parent

Papa Rick:
the thing. You have to not

Jennie:
and

Papa Rick:
have

Jennie:
you

Papa Rick:
this

Jennie:
hurt.

Papa Rick:
picture of yourself as perfect.

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
You know, you have to be you have to be able to accept. Yeah, I didn't do that one very good, you know and Apologize or whatever, you know, you have to make amends and Recognize

Jennie:
and it

Papa Rick:
you

Jennie:
doesn't

Papa Rick:
were not

Jennie:
negate

Papa Rick:
perfect and

Jennie:
the good.

Papa Rick:
give yourself the permission to not be perfect. It's like

Jennie:
Yeah.

Papa Rick:
yeah I was not the perfect parent. Sorry and Now I know better Let's you know I should have some more babies so I can be a perfect parent now. No, next kid's going to be different. It's just no such thing as perfect parenting.

Jennie:
Yeah. So before...

Papa Rick:
You only get better at the things you've seen before.

Jennie:
Yeah,

Papa Rick:
Sorry, go ahead.

Jennie:
that's okay. So anyone else who has a story they want to share that you either just want to share, get off your chest and send it in and you can write in there like, please don't share this on the podcast. Or if you do have a story that you want to share with us that we can share on the podcast that might help other people either not feel so alone or. that you think has a topic inside of it that would help other people for us to talk about, please do share that at the email in the show notes. The other thing that I want to announce before we get going here is that we are officially launching a sponsorship campaign, but we cannot do that without our listeners. So if you are hearing this and it is the month of August, 2023, We are starting our email campaign. Sorry, we are launching our sponsorship campaign September 1st, 2023. And what we need from our audience before that date is all of the likes, subscribes, comments, and downloads that we can possibly get on our YouTube channel, on Spotify, and on social media. Because once we have we hit a specific number, I believe we're aim our aim is 10,000 If we can get 10,000 new followers and subscribes in a month, then the podcast will Exponentially thrive and be pushed out to other audiences to other people looking for parenting help And that's on social media. That's on YouTube. That's on Um, on Spotify, it'll be moved to the top of search bars, et cetera, so that people can find us and access this information. Um, and let it be part of their healing journey, be part of their parenting journey, be part of whatever they need it for. And it's free, you guys, it's a free resource for parents, but it has, you guys have to help us get it seen. Um,

Papa Rick:
Gotta work

Jennie:
there's nothing

Papa Rick:
the algorithms.

Jennie:
we can do. Yeah, so I'm going to do a little drawing, a little giveaway for anyone who's hearing this again in the month of August, 2023. Right now, before September 1st, we need you to go to the YouTube channel, the Relational Parenting Podcast, the YouTube channel, and we need you to like the videos. We need you to subscribe to the channel, and we need you to post a comment on at least three or more videos. The comment can

Papa Rick:
comments

Jennie:
be,

Papa Rick:
matter.

Jennie:
oh my gosh, this is the best thing I've ever heard. It can be, oh my gosh, I disagree with you. It can

Papa Rick:
That's

Jennie:
be,

Papa Rick:
right.

Jennie:
this resonates because I just had this thing happen to me in my life. It can be anything,

Papa Rick:
You stink and here's

Jennie:
you know,

Papa Rick:
why.

Jennie:
preferably be nice. But

Papa Rick:
Hehehehe

Jennie:
if you don't, if you hate us, go write that, whatever. But so, so going to the YouTube channel. like, subscribe. If you do nothing else on any modality, Spotify, Google, Apple, YouTube, subscribe to the podcast. That is the number one thing. And if you have a little extra energy and an extra minute, like our videos and comment on a few of them. Okay. For those of you who are going in, you're subscribing, liking, and commenting. I'm watching our YouTube channel. And I'm going to enter you in a drawing to for a $25 Amazon gift card. Uh, and if you want there to be bigger and better giveaways with a lot more money involved, then go like subscribe and comment so that we can make more money and do more giveaways. Um,

Papa Rick:
Let us know what will motivate you if it's

Jennie:
yeah.

Papa Rick:
not $25 gift cards.

Jennie:
Yeah. And I'm honestly,

Papa Rick:
Which is a

Jennie:
if,

Papa Rick:
comment.

Jennie:
if you've always been curious about, um, Parent coaching, you've always wanted to dip your toe in, give me a call, whatever, but you're like, I have no budget right now. I will switch out your giveaway instead of a gift card or I'll give you the gift card and I'll give you three free coaching sessions. But I want, we need your help and I'm willing to give you guys some awesome prizes for your help. So. please go to our YouTube channel, the Relational Parenting Podcast and click subscribe. We need you to be a subscriber. And then

Papa Rick:
feedback

Jennie:
again,

Papa Rick:
and

Jennie:
if

Papa Rick:
subscribe.

Jennie:
you have time, go to TikTok and Instagram and follow those pages as well. Everywhere we are the Relational Parenting Podcast. So anything that you can do.

Papa Rick:
TikTok, Instagram, Facebook,

Jennie:
Those are the only two that matter.

Papa Rick:
Spotify.

Jennie:
TikTok and Instagram.

Papa Rick:
Okay, okay.

Jennie:
Well, yeah, I mean, going to go follow on social media, but the key is subscribing on YouTube and Spotify. Subscribe, follow, subscribe,

Papa Rick:
YouTube and

Jennie:
follow,

Papa Rick:
Spotify.

Jennie:
subscribe,

Papa Rick:
Got

Jennie:
follow.

Papa Rick:
it.

Jennie:
Yeah. And we will announce a winner on September 1st. So you're going to want to follow the social media anyway, to find out if you're a winner. Did I forget anything? Yeah, I think that's it. We need your help. We're launching a sponsorship campaign on September 1st so that we can maintain the podcast. You guys running a podcast does cost money. It's not free. So we're giving off free content and we're paying for it every single month and we have made, we are making $0. So in order for this to become a sustainable thing for us to keep putting out content, keep having guests, I have so many guests like literally coming from nowhere, just wanting, they're like, you know, we wanna help your podcast, we wanna be on the podcast, we wanna provide parents with information. So

Papa Rick:
It's a good mission.

Jennie:
we have so many guests lined up, we're scheduling into 2024, it's crazy, it's amazing, we love what we're doing and we, if you love what we're doing, then we need your help. So yeah. Cool. All right, friends, we love you, and we'll see you next week. Happy parenting and good luck out there.

Papa Rick:
You're back.